2005 R6

[Sunny]

Are you fast enough now that you need a current model motorcycle for contingency?

True, most of us don't.  However, the reason for factory to spend a lot of money in racing and hiring guys like Rossi is not to sell bike to you/racers, but street riders/squids (majority of their customer base)!  Racers are a very small proportion of customer base.  If factories relies on racers to buy their products, they'll all be out of business a long time ago.  Therefore, a MotoGP styling (doesn't have to involve redesign of the bike itself, but just the platics/fairing) and an undertail exhaust (demands from street riders although it may involve redesign of shock linkage, swingarm, etc.......) would be the correct marketing approach for product/business success.  More buyers would prefer styling advantages over a few HP.  Just my 2 cents.

[Super Dave]

While it's true that the

insert a bike here

is far from out-dated for all but the best riders, the fact that

insert another bike here [/quote] has come out with a Supersport-legal bike that incorporates almost all of the advantages of all of the other brands and has decided to [/quote] added value marketing concepts that have entered manufacturing

of their bikes will have the other brands' riders starting off at a considerable disadvantage.  I've heard that the bike will be putting down somewhere around a couple more HP than recent new bike HP figures

at the rear without a pipe stock!  :o  I'm suprised that they haven't stepped up after a mediocre AMA Supersport year and made something that would elevate them back to the status of the previous bike amongst the other brands.

Ok, I've inserted stuff...

Every year, same thing.  It's all marketing.

A full season in a competitive racing series can have ups and downs.  I think the 1, 4, 5, 6 (a privateer in 6th) finish at Daytona of the Yamaha riders in Supersport was pretty good.  Injuries and luck do play a big role.  Mick Doohan might have won the 500cc World Championship in 1992 had he not had his big crash.   Hacking is not riding the 600 anymore.  

If the newest, latest bike should win...then the Suzuki should be the clear leader.

It's not like the latest Yamaha compares to most recent Yamaha is a comparision between an RD350 and an FZR600.  LOL!  Nor was the FZR600 bad when compared to the CBR600F2 in 1992.

[Super Dave]

 Therefore, a MotoGP styling (doesn't have to involve redesign of the bike itself, but just the platics/fairing) and an undertail exhaust (demands from street riders although it may involve redesign of shock linkage, swingarm, etc.......) would be the correct marketing approach for product/business success.  More buyers would prefer styling advantages over a few HP.  Just my 2 cents.

Well, what's the flag ship bike?  The R6 or the R1?

You don't get the look of a Road King in a Sportster.

Nor do you get a supercharged V8 in a Focus (stock), but  one can in a Mustang.

Cost has to play too, obviously.

In 1988, I bought the first GSXR600....

That was the hype that was flowing through the industry, 340 pounds, as much HP at the GSXR750, 17" wheels, etc. etc...

We got the 600 Katana to race.

Those bikes were $4000 retail.  Now top flight 600's are $8k plus.  I haven't seen them get cheaper.  

Any redesign in tooling is going to cost.  

Remarketing the bike with some changes can be very profitable.  Can free up money to have more riders on your factory road race team, build customer loyalty, and so on...that's profit.  

Again, see Ducati.

[Sunny]

Again, see Ducati.

Ducati doesn't sell near as many bikes compared to any Japanese companies.  Therefore, not an apple-to-apple comparison.  Plus most who bought them, bought it for styling, not performance.  You don't see 748/749 running with the new 600's nor 998/999 running with the new 1000's, do you?  Well, if you had to talk about World Ducati Championship (where Ducati IS the only factory team), then yes..........


Flagship means nothing (besides I don't think any street squid should be riding the new 1000's anyway, because they don't have the skills to handle it and hence many died riding them every year; drove the insurance premium way up as a result).  Which displacemented bike do you think the factories sell the most units?  Profit are generated from high volume production (also means parts business), unless you can find plenty of buyers to pay for very high-priced/profitable products (Ducati isn't getting very rich for a reason).  Anyway, just my 2 cents.

[Super Dave]

I think Ducat sells one fifth the number of bikes that H-D sells.

The reality is that Ducati was virtually gone in the mid-eighties, but they survived, thrived, and were sold.  Not bad.  They will never have the volume as H, K, Y, or S, but Porsche isn't trying to outsell Ford either.

More squids still buy the farm on 600's.  That's why insurance for those bikes is so high.

Flagships do mean something.  

That's where the pride of companies are placed.  If they meant nothing, then there would be no 7-seried BMW's.  There wouldn't be the need for Ford's GT.  Why redesign the AMA Superbike winning GSXR1000 when it's probably going to win the championship again?

1000's are too fast?  How about 600's are too fast for most riders?  Even thoughs with "skills"...

We don't own the company.

And I doubt that Yamaha will be left with any '05 R6's on the floor even if Suzuki redesigns the GSXR600 for '05.

[Sunny]

Flagships do mean something.

Agree, but mostly just to make a statement about Technology, HP, Torque, Speed and/or Handling, not profit that the company stock is depending on.  

How about 600's are too fast for most riders?  Even thoughs with "skills"...

I agree, but just trying to say that all current 1000's are outrageously fast/dangerous.  I wish these Japanese motorcycle manufacturers start making high-performce 400 again as the current 600's are definitely not a beginner's bike, but an experienced rider's tool.

[Ridgeway]

I wish these Japanese motorcycle manufacturers start making high-performce 400 again

Agreed!!!  Wouldn't it be great if you could go buy a modernized 400cc 4cyl bike?  An updated FZR/CBR/RVF 400 would be an absolute blast to ride, and would provide some more variety in terms of choosing a competetive LW race machine.

With insurance rates going ever farther through the roof for 600's and 1000's, and new riders crashing their brains out, 400's would make a ton of sense.

Unfortunately, I suspect it would take someting like tiered/graduated licensing to convince the manufacturer's to bring these to market in the U.S.

I'd actually be in favor of tiered licensing, via displacement or HP limits, but I doubt there will be support for such legislation any time soon.

This is the type of thing I'd like to see the AMA look at.  Rather than fight for biker's rights to kill themselves by not having to wear helmets, lets fight to save some lives and encourage people to LEARN TO RIDE before they hop on some 100+ HP road missle.

[motomadness]

No self-respecting street squid would be caught dead on a 400, because his buddies would always be leaving him behind, or the ladies would respect his "manhood".  Either way a lot beginners riding bikes aren't thinking about safety, especially not the bling-bling street riders.  Tez can tell plenty of stories about guys on the street trying to ride with him.  Heck at the latest Ducati dealer trackday, where the intro'd the 999R, may of the guys had never been on a track before, but once they saw Eric Bostrom, the true squidness came out.  Were they thinking about the safety, or how cool they would look?

I think lightweight racing has a place, but lightweight street riding is a tough sell, especially when most of the riding is probably on a boring, straight highway.

[Super Dave]

Agree, but mostly just to make a statement about Technology, HP, Torque, Speed and/or Handling, not profit that the company stock is depending on..

And that's why the R6 doesn't necessarily need a complete redesign.

[Super Dave]

Agreed!!!  Wouldn't it be great if you could go buy a modernized 400cc 4cyl bike?  An updated FZR/CBR/RVF 400 would be an absolute blast to ride, and would provide some more variety in terms of choosing a competetive LW race machine.

Isn't this where the SV is?

I mean, RVF400's were cool, but they weren't cheap.  Available, yes, but they were the flagships of the 400 category.

[Sunny]

I mean, RVF400's were cool, but they weren't cheap.  Available, yes, but they were the flagships of the 400 category.

You got that right.  I paid a lot for mine (could've got any 600's for less easily), and it was used (but titled and registered).  They are the flagships of the 400 category in term of design, styling and technology, but definitely not in weight, HP nor torque categories.  Being a V4 also means that it's complicated to work on and no one really knows how to tune and mod it to stay with other inline 4 400's in superbike form.

[Sunny]

Unfortunately, I suspect it would take someting like tiered/graduated licensing to convince the manufacturer's to bring these to market in the U.S.

Agree, and that's why the 400 market died at the first place as Japanese changed their licensing structure.