put the 125's up front

[gpswag]

I think we have completely got off the main topic.. What alfauno and I are talking about is for our race NOT lightweight GP or GT Lights put 125's in the first wave we clear the first turn (don't get a 4 up our a$$)and then let the LWSB go, that way only 1 or 2 guys are going to get by us rather than us get by over half the field..

[alfauno]

It's pretty simple- 125 experts start in a first wave. That way they don't block the ULSB start, which is a second wave, and will never be seen again. Amateur 125s can start with the amateur ULSB field. This way we don't have experts starting BEHIND amateurs, and everyone has a fair race. If there are a couple of fast SV experts who can catch the 125s, they aren't going to be held up- they can pass on any straight, and the 125s don't have to work through most of the field ahead while trying to race each other.

[TZ_Boy]

   You chose your racebike/tool.  If you are unable to pass a 4-stroke then learn to use your tool better.  

  I'm down for Lemans starts.


  Sincerly yours,
     Yellow Plated Sandbagger

[Hankster]

There seems to be a little confusion here. We have people talking about SV's versus 125's whereas the problem in the ULWSB race did not involve SV's at all. The problem involved the expert 125 riders being gridded behind the amateur ULWSB riders. It seems to me that if two classes are run simultaneously in a two wave race, the expert riders in both classes should be gridded ahead of the amateur riders in both classes. It is irrelevant who reaches Turn 1 first. Let the experts start first and let the amateurs start second just like in any other single class two wave start.

[ecumike]

I think we have completely got off the main topic.. What alfauno and I are talking about is for our race NOT lightweight GP or GT Lights......

But of course, don't you know this has been a thread-jack. :)

[Super Dave]

I think we have completely got off the main topic.. What alfauno and I are talking about is for our race NOT lightweight GP or GT Lights put 125's in the first wave we clear the first turn (don't get a 4 up our a$$)and then let the LWSB go, that way only 1 or 2 guys are going to get by us rather than us get by over half the field..

Yeah, exactly.  Who's missing out...

BFR - 125GP vs Ultra Light Superbike...

First....

I can't imagine that many ULSB Amateurs are doing 15's, probably more like 25-30s. The 125s in our rider group are doing 1:20 (except for me, 28-29s).

There were three guys in 125GP...

But the reality of times is this...

The faster bikes did start first. Expert Ultra Light Superbike times at Blackhawk are typically in the mid to low 17s to high 16s for Gary P., Billy B. and myself. We had 7 experts and 7 amateurs take the grid on Sunday.

So, the proposal is for a faster group of guys (lap times and straight away speeds) should start from the back?

Basically, it seems like we're trying to grid AMA Superstock behind AMA Supersport...Yeah, the 600's have a faster mid corner speed, but still...

Make a good case before getting all worked up.

In your court...

[alfauno]

Dave,
The AMA Supersport/Superbike analogy might make some sense- if they  had two wave starts, or had a two tier system with amateurs and experts, because the issue is whether or not it's right to start experts in a second wave behind amateurs. You frequently run your middleweight bike in classes that allow larger machines. Your races have large turnouts, so that amateurs are usually in a seperate race. But, what if they gridded the larger bikes ahead of you, experts and then amateurs, and started middleweights in a second wave so that you would have to work your way through an entire group of amateurs to catch the guys who can run at your pace? I don't think you'd be very happy. That's what has happaned to us in 125GP. The comparative performance issue really is moot, because it's always a result of rider & equipment. Did you see Jeff Purk running a strong third o/a in the LWGP at Topeka on Stiles' 125 (until the motor went south)? I only made a comparison of lap times because I think the 125s are thought to be small, therefore must be slow, by those who don't know. CCS recognizes the 125s and ULSBs to have similar performance capability, and so groups us together. I suggested the 125 first wave approach because it's been done before, and seemed to work out fine. However, at the very least, experts should start with experts, and amateurs with amateurs.