SD's new AM/EX idea...

[Super Dave]

This year  I avoided all purse classes to keep my costs down.  I run 4 races per weekend and it's costing me $190.  Would I rather run 3 races, 1 with a (virtually unattainable) purse for $190?  no.  Would I pay more to run a GT race that paid to 10th?  Yes!  $110 though?  That's kinda stiff...  I'd probably end up running it sometimes, but not consistently.

Gotta keep running with this.

Ok, you have a 600.  With my format...somewhere in this thread...you could run several races.  Let's say you decided to run the two "600" classes, Sportbike and Formula Gran Prix, and then race against the bigger bikes in Formula Sportbike.  All three would be purse races.  I'd really hope that they'd pay to tenth...at least.  Might have a payback based on entries?  

Races would be about twelve laps long at Blackhawk Farms.  I would suppose that you'd do qualifying for each "tier"...Sportbike and Formula Sportbike would qualify together, Formula Sportbike and Unlimited Grand Prix together, Lightweight Grand Prix and Thunderbike, etc....

If we're reducing classes, then the cost has to go up.  If we're getting more track time and qualifying, the cost has to go up.  Nothing can be free.  

Each rider usually enters so many classes.  That generates so much money for CCS.  We can't cut them short...that won't work.  I think currently an average racer usually enters four to five classes.  So, you, at $190, is around the average of four to five classes.  Would you enter three classes at $100 each with the opportunity to be part of a bigger show and to maybe get some payback?

[Jeff]

So, you, at $190, is around the average of four to five classes.  Would you enter three classes at $100 each with the opportunity to be part of a bigger show and to maybe get some payback?

$190 - 4 races
$300 - 3 races

This might be tough.  

I'm very budget based (who isn't?), so it would be a trial & error thing for me.  Would I like 12 lap races?  YOU BET!

Do I want to be a part of "a bigger show"?  I dunno...  it would really depend.  It's like FUSA for me.  Could I run FUSA?  Sure, I suppose I could.  However, I can't justify the extra costs to race for bottom 5 just because there's more exposure.

I would trial/error the format and see if it worked for me.

The one thing I have resigned at this point though is that (barring lotto & miracle in capabilities) I'm not going to run professional.  I'm a club guy.  I enjoy the family aspect & comfortable paces.

I'd rather run (BHF) 13's - 15's and be comfortable/stay upright, than push the envelope running 10's - 12's and crash 5x in a weekend.  But that's just me.  That being the case, the pro/ex may not be the right format for me.  Again, it would be trial/error to see.

Obviously, if I could run pro-ex and finish top 10 around 50% of the time, getting a payback, I would absolutely do it!

[Jeff]

And YES, Purses SHOULD  be based on entries!  25% of entry fee back as purse, or something like such.

[Super Dave]

Yes and no.

In 1993, purses for GTU and GTO were based on entries.  Top finishers were given a percentage of the purse.

If you spent the money to go to Heartland Park Topeka and race (there weren't tons of entries), you only go so much money.  In June of that year, Jason Pridmore and I raced against each other and our take home purse was ridiculously small.  

You'd want people to go race at the "less popular" venues for some consistency.  So, you'd have to make some guarantees for a purse.  Yeah, some places CCS would get more money for the purse, but it'd be used to make up for it in other places.

Bottomline is that the purse needs to be reasonable, but not extraordinarily substantial.

$200 for a win in ULGP seems small for me.  You'd want the top five guys getting a pretty decent payback, with a payback of the entry fee plus something for the final five in the top ten...

Thoughts?

[Super Dave]

I'd rather run (BHF) 13's - 15's and be comfortable/stay upright, than push the envelope running 10's - 12's and crash 5x in a weekend.  But that's just me.  That being the case, the pro/ex may not be the right format for me.  Again, it would be trial/error to see.

Obviously, if I could run pro-ex and finish top 10 around 50% of the time, getting a payback, I would absolutely do it!

Yeah, that's the opportunity.

One, you'd have a choice.  Could you post really good results as an Expert Sportsman with 13's?  Probably.  

Might be boarder line for getting your entry fees back in Pro Expert.

But, you'd have the choice.  "Down grading" your license wouldn't be like "becoming" and amateur either....something that happens more now than in the past...and really seems ridiculous based on the perception and nomenclature of the class.

[Clay]

Well, I like the idea.  It sounds like a good idea to promote true talent and dedication.  I also really like the idea of paying more to the pros...TRULY more.  As in, not 200 for a win, but more along the lines of 750 or so.  200 would be good for 5th place.

Second, I think you'd need to try and see if you can get the manufacturers to step up their contingency for this pro class.  Sorry, but 60 bux from Dunlop for a win doesn't cut it...considering I just spent more than 300 dollars for a set of tires.  It needs to pay further back as well, just like the purse does.

I say the first two points because there are those of us who aspire to make it pro someday that afford these aspirations from their own back pockets.  A true pro team doesn't give a crap about that contingency money, but there are those of us that it literally means making the next race or not.

Lastly, it all comes down to money for CCE.  How will this make money for them?  It sounds to me like it will make less money, and as we know CCE doesn't give a shit about us...only money.  So how will it make more than the current structure?

[Super Dave]

Clay, a couple of years ago Unlimited GP used to pay $500 for a win and like $50 for 10th.  Riders weren't entering it like now with $200 for the win and whatever it is now (more than $50?) for 10th.

You can't get the manufacturers to step up.  When they say they will, they sometimes change their mind.  The only way to make this work is to establish a reasonable and solid foundation upon the CCS structure.

Yes, CCE can't loose money.  Can we make it a win, win situation?

Win for CCE...keep riders longer.  If you could increase a rider base of 5000 (that spends $500,000 on their license renewals at $100 each) to 7000...hey, that's an extra $200,000.  Insurance for Daytona is $42k alone.  Help with the bleeding of money and things really could change.

Would a purse structure for "Pro Experts" attract other riders from other organizations?  Might.  More licenses.  

Give more opportunities to the not so fast and not so financially well off to be reasonable competitive...well, you might get more entries in addition to retaining those riders for a year more than the 2.5 average.

[Clay]

SO, do you think you can convince CCE to give the go ahead on something like this with the "investment" model?  

It sounds like a good idea.  Either way, I'm really looking forward to racing with the white plates next year and can't wait to get even faster!!!!  ;D

[Super Dave]

I think I just need to sell it to Kevin Elliott and the race directors.  CCE...as long as it doesn't cost them money...will it matter to them?

[Clay]

That's just it though.  They might see this as an "investment" since it's got the potential to flop or sail.  Is it one they're willing to take?  I'd think the first year would see a possible decline in cash flow.  But your proposed idea of keeping more in longer is an idea for future growth.  

Anyhow, I ramble on.  There's no point in us guessing what the suits will do!  

At this point, I'm just reall curious to know the class structure.  I want to run the pro class, plain and simple.  Since I currently ride a 929, am I going to be stuck in only one class, or will I at least have two?  A SS and GP class sounds good to me.  The SBK class is overkill.  

I do like the idea of being able to race the pro class on just one day.  I tell ya, taking off work has hurt as much as the cost of racing.  I'm a contractor, so when I don't bill for hours, I don't make money.  Racing on Sat and Sun w/the usual practice on Friday sucks, NOT to mention FUSA weekend...Th-Sun.  I actually like the Florida races because I can drive down Sat and drive back Sun after the race is over.

[Super Dave]

That's just it though.  They might see this as an "investment" since it's got the potential to flop or sail.  Is it one they're willing to take?  I'd think the first year would see a possible decline in cash flow.  But your proposed idea of keeping more in longer is an idea for future growth.  

Anyhow, I ramble on.  There's no point in us guessing what the suits will do!  

Well, the "suit" that will have to decide on it would be Kevin Elliott...a former racer himself, so....

At this point, I'm just reall curious to know the class structure.  I want to run the pro class, plain and simple.  Since I currently ride a 929, am I going to be stuck in only one class, or will I at least have two?  A SS and GP class sounds good to me.  The SBK class is overkill.

Yeah, two seems good.  That's the idea.  Need to sit down with a schedule and try to revamp it a bit...

[mizter1]

Disagree, I like it the way it is.