Pirelli SuperCorsa vs. Pirelli Slicks

[Sunny]

I need some feedbacks from racers who had used both Pirelli SuperCorsa and slicks (especially SV racers who used 120/70 and 160/60 tire sizes).   ;D   Basically, I have not used slicks but would like to try a set soon.  I would like to know if I have to adjust my chassis/suspension when going from Pirelli SuperCorsa to Pirellis slicks.  Any useful suggestion/comment will be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.   ;)

Also would like to know how Pirelli slicks compare to Michelin slicks if anyone had experiences with them.  Thanks.   ;)

[Super Dave]

I believe that the Pirelli slicks used to be the same shape and basic construction as the DOT's.  I don't know how they are now.

The geometry will be different from the Pirelli's and Michelin's because of the different heights of the tires, even though the sizes are the same.

Michelins' =  longevity with a tire that tends to drive forward when it begins to spin.  The Pirelli drives a little sideways when it spins.  The last Dunlops I rode on wanted to be more sideways that the others.

[Sunny]

Dave, thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge!   ;)

I was told that the rear for both Pirelli SuperCorsa and slicks are still basically the same, but the front is somewhat different (stiffer due to different carcass?) and will cause some chassis/suspension problem.  This is why I want to be sure by asking those with plenty of experience with them (Eddie Kraft, where are you?  ;D).  

About the Michelin and Pirelli, I was simply asking for their performance such as stickiness, braking, turn-in quickness, stability at full lean, wear, tendency to spin/high-side, etc....... (I am aware of every make/model tire differs in diameter/carcass hardness/profile/...... although may just be slightly among some).  Sorry that I didn't specify them first, but you answered part of the questions with Dunlop's information as well.  Thanks!   ;)

[calvin669]

You can get your rear to spin on that thing?
:)

[Sunny]

You can get your rear to spin on that thing?
:)

Yep, believe it Ryan!   ;)  Of course, not like a real power sliding from the big V-twins nor the Inline 4's, but it does happen from time to time although just slightly.   ::)  

I am more interested in the chassis/suspension set-up tips and how Michelin compared to Pirelli in general!  Now, go defend Dan instead of try to start something with me!   >:( ;D  Are you going to be at BeaveRun next weekend?  

[ekraft84]

I've never made any suspension changes between the slicks and DOTs.  My experience is based on switching from DOTs to slicks on the same bike (both the SB SV and the SS SV), and switching between bikes on race weekends which have different tires (the SB SV has slicks and the SS SV normally has DOTs).

My experience with Michelin's are limited.  I rode the Grattan National 8 hour endurance last year on Michelins and didn't like them.  I was also on someone else's bike, which probably didn't help.

Monte's tried to sell me on them, but I'm not a big fan of them taking as long to heat up as they do.  Michelin supposedly has a newer tire that heats up quicker, but until Pirelli does something to disappoint me, I don't see myself switching brands.

Are you sure you're spinning the rear?  Some guys think they're doing that, when it's something else that's going on.  Lightweight bikes shouldn't be doing that - maybe it's a suspension issue?  Or body positioning?  I almost never have the Pirelli's move on me, unless the tires are absolutely toasted and I'm going really good (which hasn't happened much this year  :)  ).

[calvin669]

Who said I was trying to start something with you shrivel dikk?

I'm trying... got's lot's o' crap to do

[Sunny]

I've never made any suspension changes between the slicks and DOTs.  My experience is based on switching from DOTs to slicks on the same bike (both the SB SV and the SS SV), and switching between bikes on race weekends which have different tires (the SB SV has slicks and the SS SV normally has DOTs).

My experience with Michelin's are limited.  I rode the Grattan National 8 hour endurance last year on Michelins and didn't like them.  I was also on someone else's bike, which probably didn't help.

Monte's tried to sell me on them, but I'm not a big fan of them taking as long to heat up as they do.  Michelin supposedly has a newer tire that heats up quicker, but until Pirelli does something to disappoint me, I don't see myself switching brands.

Are you sure you're spinning the rear?  Some guys think they're doing that, when it's something else that's going on.  Lightweight bikes shouldn't be doing that - maybe it's a suspension issue?  Or body positioning?  I almost never have the Pirelli's move on me, unless the tires are absolutely toasted and I'm going really good (which hasn't happened much this year  :)  ).

Thanks Eddie for sharing the information!   ;)

No, I am not sliding the rear like the big V-twins nor the Inline 4's!  However, the rear does lose grip momentarily when I flick the bike from side to side really quick (i.e., esse of Grattan).  I am sure it had something to do with the flicking speed, smoothness and suspension/damping set-up, not to mention how bad my body positioning is.........   :-[  I would like to try the slicks mostly for better/more even wear as the SuperCorsa/Rennsport rear wear out quick fast only if the slicks require no learning curve (behaves basically the same as the SuperCorsa/Rennsport).  From the looks of the rear and what others said, it's because the thread cut as the wear starts there.   :'(

[Steviebee]

Michelins' =  longevity with a tire that tends to drive forward when it begins to spin.  The Pirelli drives a little sideways when it spins.  

Thats seems so true!  I couldnt decide if it was cause i changed the geometry or if the tire was that different.  I would always be stepping out with the pirelli, whereas the michelins eithor grip better or dont step out as much.

[motomadness]

Sunny,
Don't be afraid to try them out.  Don't depend on some else's opinion, use your own judgement.  I have raced on Pirelli slicks, Michelin slicks and dots, Bridgestone slicks and dots, and Dunlop dots, although never on the same type of bike.  They all behave differently (steering) and wear differently.  I am currently using Michelins.  I think they are awesome tires, and I have no current plans to run any other brand.

If you still consider yourself to be an amatuer, try them all.  If not, stick with what you are comfortable with and start modifying the chassis.  At some point, all tires are going to give you the same result, you just have to be willing to invest the time to make your bike and your riding technique match for maximum performance.  Case in point, Nicky Hayden.  He probably never used anything but Dunlop tires until he reached MotoGP.  He struggled a little in the beginning, but now look where he's at.

I know this is probably more than what you wanted to hear, but just keep an open mind.

[Sunny]

Thanks a lot for all the information/suggestion/comments!   I really appreciate all your help.  ;)  

I am a very open-minded person  ::), so keep your thoughts coming.  I am more than willing to listen and learn!   ;)

I guess I'll try out a set of Pirelli slicks and Michelin slicks soon!

[Sunny]

Well, I think it is time to get a new set of tires for my bike as I actually power slided my bike in the second race this weekend at BeaveRun.   :o  Starting on lap 3 or 4 of the second race, the rear would spin up and slide out of T4 and T10.  Of course, it did caused me to slow down to prevent crashing as I am not used to this "power sliding" thing.  

I inspected the tire afterward, there is still plenty of rubber, and no sign of tearing.  I wonder if this is due to overcooking it or other problem.  I had worn out a rear last year more without a "power sliding" problem on my 400.   :-/

[ekraft84]

FWIW Sunny, I had two rear slides at Beaver - one on each bike.  My body positioning was different (my butt  was on the seat, not off the bike) and seemingly caused it.

I later went faster, on older tires, by correcting technique issues.

[clink, clink]

[Sunny]

Thanks Eddie for the input!   ;)  I guess I'll have you look at my tire at Nelson next weekend before I purchased a new set of tires and waste the money as Nelson is my last WERA NC race of the year since I couldn't make Grattan later this month due to a cousin getting engaged.

I am not sure if it was my body positioning as I believe I rode the same way during my first race and the laps before the rear starts spinning in the second race.  However, I did got more agressive with my throttle hand coming out of T4 and T10.  I wonder if this also had to do with my on-going fork leaking problem.........  

[Super Dave]

Takes a few laps for some shocks to reach operating temperature.  Might be related to that.

Rebuild time?  Specific to the shock like a Penske?  They need heat.  That's one of the reasons I use the Hyperpro rear shock as it's designed to that it works over pretty much any reasonable temperature range consistently.

[Sunny]

Thanks for the inputs, Dave!   ;)

I am not sure if it is heat/shock related as my second race is only one race apart from the first one (should be two, but those two got combined).  At a short track at BeaveRun, that means less than 15 minutes after I finished my first race which means my tires and shock were still warm to begin the second race.  I'll play with damping setting at Nelson to see if that helps.

Rebuild...........Can't be, just have the Penske revavled.  Well, at least I hope not.

[Super Dave]

Penske's do seem to be very sensative to heat.  

I did some laps using the prototype "Traxxion Generators".  For me, it was a night and day difference.  The shock needed the time to warm up before you could get a feel for what you really wanted.  With the Traxxion Generator, I knew immediately what I wanted.  

I use Hyperpro stuff now, and I love them.  Unfortunately, we seem to race out here when it's cold, so I have some first had experience with them that way.  And they work.

[jstrunseej]

Sunny, the Dot race Pirellis are great. I run a soft in the front and a soft in the rear on my SV650. I used to run the Metzlers and they were just as good. Whatever you do, stay off of those Dunlop's for your SV, they are garbage.

[Sunny]

Thanks Jack.  I always run Pirelli SC1 front/SC2 rear or Metzeler RS1 front and RS2 rear.  Just thought that I give the slick a shot to see if it'll help my slow @$$......   ;D  I did try a rear slick at Nelson when my DOT rear is toasted, and didn't find any noticeable difference with the extra $20.  However, it could be due to the fact that I didn't have a fresh front and the old one was definitely losing grip (front push/slide).  I'll probably try a full set of new slicks at the beginning of the season and see how things go.  By the way, I don't ride a SV now although I would like to (the engine problem I've been hearing is scaring me)!   ;)


Sunny
1998 Honda RVF400

[r6_philly]

I dont know about 160's for sure. for 180's the rear is the same, DOT is a slick with tread grooves.

for the 120 front, the slick is more V shaped and may be more stiff in the sidewall than the DOT's DOT is more rounded. at the center of the tread the circumfrence is the same for DOT and slick, but at the edge the slick is 3 or 4 mm shorter than the DOT.

This from Pirelli at VIR as I struggled to find a front end with the slick instead of a DOT.

[tshort]

in the FWIW dept...I have run mostly DOTs (sc1/sc2) and love them on my stock sv.  Ran slicks once (same compounds), and loved those, too.  Seemed to run slightly faster on those, but I still wonder whether it was all psychological, rather than any real difference (especially since I destroyed my personal best lap time at home track this year, on a weaker motor - and that was on DOTs).

Had to run Michelins once this summer, when the pirelli guy showed up with NO 160 rears.  Couldn't believe it.  So I ran Michelins.  Liked the grip, and overall feel of them, but could not get the front suspension dialed in with them.  Going through T2 at BFR front pogo'd like mad.  Figured out it was due to stiffer sidewall on the Michelins (ok, *I* didn't figure it out.  Thanks, Ed :)).  No matter what I did with rear shock, ride height, and front preload, couldn't get the thing to work. Even had full front rebuild done at the track (thanks, Brian B!).  Still didn't help.

So...I rode it like that anyway, and did ok, but scared myself every time I went thru T2 (there's washboard pavement at the entry there, right as you tip it in - and it's a pretty fast corner.  I stand up on the pegs thru there anyway, motocross style.).

So there's my $0.02.  Love those Pirellis.  Love em.