Hello Guest

Qualifying

  • 90 Replies
  • 6482 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

*

cstem

  • *
  • 254
    +1/-1
  • NOT Randy.
Re: Qualifying
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2004, 12:07:52 am »
Clay, I think that people that are chasing points whould not have the 'game' made easier by points gridding.  Remember champoinships have been won by riders who never won a race all season, ala B. Bostrom.  As far as qualifying for some and the rest can get sorted by registration- good idea-but will never work.  How many bitches and moans have we heard about with incorrect gridding as things are now?  Throw in a curve like that and registration would never get to sit around and not get your points/contingencies/trophies right (disclaimer- i am marrying a gal from registration who is currently laughing along at my jest!).  With the number of people, the number of races (although too many,but where does the guy with the Hon-Taco-Muz race?) and the time constraints of making sure that everyone gets the most track time of ANY organization or club in the US that regularly has 250+ entries, the current way just seems like the way to go.  As an announcer/entertainer, I love qualifying as ot really can make a show interesting and adds some excitement if it goes well and you have some talent on hand (never a prob here in SW land- Home of CCS High School!), but just can't see a way out of where we are at at this time.  By the way, there were lots of good ideas in  this post- that is the way I like to see complaints done. ;D
« Last Edit: July 30, 2004, 12:09:25 am by cstem »
Like
0
Dislike
0
Agree
0
Disagree
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
The voice of the Southwest.

*

motomadness

Re: Qualifying
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2004, 03:32:10 am »
Ya know, it's always easier to speculate a negative outcome before ever attempting something.  We might be suprised.  There is obviously an additional complexity, but might improve things, especially if you remove certain classes at the expert level.  Keep all of the amatuer classes, and reduce the number of expert classes, while making the expert races a little longer (kinda what Super Dave said).
Like
0
Dislike
0
Agree
0
Disagree
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

*

ecumike

Re: Qualifying
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2004, 05:25:15 am »
Quote
Keep all of the amatuer classes, and reduce the number of expert classes, while making the expert races a little longer (kinda what Super Dave said).

No way dude.. I'd rather race more races for contingency than have less and longer. If you wanna have qualifying.. do a National race.
Like
0
Dislike
0
Agree
0
Disagree
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

*

motomadness

Re: Qualifying
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2004, 07:08:31 am »
ecumike,
Super Dave also mentioned paying the purse deeper, which could also imply extending the contingencies further into the field, or bulking them up more.  I like supporting my sponsors, some of which aren't participating in the CCS/FUSA contingency program, something I might need to reconsider for next year.  From what I understand most of the $11 million in contingency wasn't enough taken last year.  Why?  Poor choice of companies, bad products, or other preferences. If you are riding a 125GP bike, how much contingency were you really getting?

Don't get me wrong, I like running a lot of races.  If you make a mistake in one, you still have another to make it up, but I think that makes the competition a little less serious at the same time.

What we need is a paradigm shift.  Make the amatuer classes very broad, so club racers can get all of the enjoyment out of motorcycle racing.  Then push the expert classes to become more professional and run like pro races, so talented racers are more prepared for the next level.  Maybe this should apply only to the MW/HW/UNL expert classes, where most racers are going to find a pro outlet.

This could do a few things:
- negative: alienate the racers with no interest in racing as a pro and potentially cost more for the racer
- positive: a process is formed that will help privateer riders develop not only their riding talent, but learn how to build the mindset necessary to compete at the pro level.  Such as going to a track, breaking it down in a few breif practice sessions, qualify, then prepare to race, all while showing your sponsors why your program deserves their support

If we are going to grow the sport, it has to start at the club level.  It covers more of the population because it's more spread out and there are more rounds.  It has the potential to touch the street rider more easily which if marketed well could be signifcant (look at all of the track days, and the track day riders becoming racers).

I'm rambling now ...
Like
0
Dislike
0
Agree
0
Disagree
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

*

Super Dave

  • I hate salad...
  • ******
  • 11415
    +1261/-454
  • I'm the ghost with the most...
Re: Qualifying
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2004, 07:56:16 am »
Rock, paper, sissors...another vote..   8)

Let the debates begin...  Eric, let's see if any good ideas are here.

One - I love motorcycle road racing.  But race day is so boring.  How many classes do we have...like fifty?  It feels like fifty!

Here's one idea.  

Three categories of riders.  A truely amateur class...this is for guys that are in fact new.  Give them a year, give them limited classes with no championships, and no contingencies.  Some riders will graduate out quicker than others.  That's fine.  We want a learning class.  I see too much stupid stuff going on with new guys.  

And how is a new guy supposed to compete against an expert that bumps down to amateur?  That's BS, period.  I have examples.  I don't care if the guy is entering ten races a weekend, or that he missed a year, they aren't "amatuers" and they ARE taking contingency money away from real amatures.  (There wouldn't be contingency in my REAL amatuer class.)

Next, you need a class that would fulfill a classification for many faster newer riders and the recreational racers.  Current six year amateurs and some experts that race for fun would fill this category.  I'd have fair contingency and a couple of classes with a purse or certificate pay back.

This is where you could have a more diverse number of classes.  Then you can have MZ battles all day long.  

Then you could have your show classes.  Hey, there are people that actually come to the race track to try to go faster than anyone else.  Some of those riders work on their set up and spend a great deal on trying to build some kind of program to do events that have TV coverage, etc.

Put some money up, get the contingency wagon going.  This might actually LOOK interesting to a spectator that isn't a good friend of yours or a family memeber.  And it will show that their is something to aspire too with some reward.

As for growing the sport...

It WON'T start at the club level.  

Mladin, Bostrom's, Rainey, DuHammel, Zemke and some other names didn't do club racing in the US system to get where they were.  They were dirt trackers, did racing in foreign lands, etc. to get where they were.

Polen and Russell and James...those were guys that actively used the club racing system, but that was an era long out of reach of most of you.

The sport is growing from the top, but the club level has remained the same, other than adding a lot more classes...and paying amateurs purses and contingencies...which was traditionally unheard of...that was reserved for experts,,,and it has led to the corrupt system of sandbagging amateurs.

When a guy that started the year before has to race against a guy that raced for five years, goes expert, then "becomes" an amateur...so how do you explain that do your mom?  Your friends?  

If the system looks bad...

"My son got second to a guy that was a pro the year before but was moved back to his class because he said he would enter ten races a weekend...It's all about money isn't it?"

That makes the riders unhappy, and me too...a guy that doesn't have the money that some of the amateurs have...but some how I keep at this.  

Thoughts?

Rock.
Like
0
Dislike
0
Agree
0
Disagree
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
Super Dave

*

ecumike

Re: Qualifying
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2004, 08:08:53 am »
Yea, all good thoughts here.

It is a bit of a conundrum though.. I think you wanna make club/regional racing attractive to the newcomers/AMs and wanna be racers, but don't give them enough that they would want to stay AM and sandbag. Like pointed out, maybe less contin. or certs only, etc.

I do like the ranges of classes, however, back to one thing SD said.. maybe you could get rid of the SBK classes.. does anyone race SBK that doesn't also race the GP races? They're not THAT much different are they?  At least in the LW div. I see all the same racers in SS, SBK, and GP.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2004, 08:09:40 am by ecumike »
Like
0
Dislike
0
Agree
0
Disagree
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

*

cstem

  • *
  • 254
    +1/-1
  • NOT Randy.
Re: Qualifying
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2004, 01:10:05 pm »
Good points Dave, expect for the Bostroms not running club events (or others like Edwards, Russell, James etc)  The B's ran local dirt track in Cali, and even came to a couple of CCS SW events both in Harley and Honda support ride roles for testing, learning and having fun.  Nicky Moore who is in his rookie year of AMA Pro racing is getting in to the top tens and will get much better as his talent grows- bigtime club racer. Geoff May- big time club racer.  Zemke to my knowledge has not raced anywhere but the US.  The club or Pro-Am level as I consider CCS breeds many future top running pro's as does the dirt tracks of America.  Qualifying for UNGP is really all that is needed.  It is the only premier class we have at the current time.  It's grids usually filled with the fastest, most skilled riders on the best prepped, great looking machines of the region.  The only (okay, not the only but I have bored you enough...hey are you still there?) thing that could make it better is to lengthen the UNGP races and make a top ten plate system for the class to help racers that earn one earn sponsorship and show who is the 'fastest top ten' riders in the region.  I agree that there are too many classes, especially in LW divisions and Kevin already started to address that by combining classes or dropping them for '04.  But as long as CCS keeps getting good numbers of entries in a class it will stay around.  This has been an awesome thread by the way.
Like
0
Dislike
0
Agree
0
Disagree
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
The voice of the Southwest.

*

Super Dave

  • I hate salad...
  • ******
  • 11415
    +1261/-454
  • I'm the ghost with the most...
Re: Qualifying
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2004, 09:12:57 pm »
Club racing can be cheap track time....

But Bostrom's came from dirt track in their learning process.  Wasn't Zemke out of that same mold?  Nicky Moore's a dirt tracker too, right?  Jesse Janisch, Cummings, Young, Eslick...they learned how to ride because they had the hard competition of dirt track.  That's what makes them pretty darn good road racers.  The things from dirt track apply, just gotta get them to adjust their body positioning...

Roberts, Lawson, Spencer....

I was thinking today about May being one of the guys that came from club road racing....we'd have to add Jensen and Denning also.  But we don't see them running AMA stuff 'cause they can make more money, even if teams try to pay them, racing for Yamaha money.

Mladin's payout for winning at Laguna last year was $4k and some change.  The next weekend, Denning walked away with $8k from Yamaha after winning four races at Blackhawk Farms.

And the guy that spent the money to win the championship in that region at Blackhawk got?  

Well, he got a plate.  
Like
0
Dislike
0
Agree
0
Disagree
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
Super Dave

*

khanson

  • *
  • 403
    +23/-81
  • Safety First Racing
    • Safety First Racing
Re: Qualifying
« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2004, 04:33:34 am »
haha dave, i had paper, didn't u see it,...........u lose! <scary laugh> muh hoo hahahahaha
Like
0
Dislike
0
Agree
0
Disagree
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
Kevin Hanson<br /><br />www.SafetyFirstRacing.c om<br />Safety First Racing<br />847.357.1309

*

khanson

  • *
  • 403
    +23/-81
  • Safety First Racing
    • Safety First Racing
Re: Qualifying
« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2004, 04:35:32 am »
that above statement and this statement is/was by jesse janisch, im on kevins computer and didn't realize that he was signed in.
Like
0
Dislike
0
Agree
0
Disagree
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
Kevin Hanson<br /><br />www.SafetyFirstRacing.c om<br />Safety First Racing<br />847.357.1309

*

Dawn

Re: Qualifying
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2004, 04:53:41 am »
Quote
that above statement and this statement is/was by jesse janisch, im on kevins computer and didn't realize that he was signed in.



Ssshhhhh........

Don't tell anyone.  Go ahead, make a few goofy posts and then watch Kevin's face as people walk up to him an say,  "What did you mean when you said on the board...."

;D
Like
0
Dislike
0
Agree
0
Disagree
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

*

Clay

Re: Qualifying
« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2004, 10:05:11 am »
Well, one important thing to look at here is...what's going to change?!?!?  We can talk all we want, but let's face it, CCS is run by a greedy corporation that doesn't give a damn about us racers.   >:(  I'd love for some of the suggestions to come under serious consideration, but it won't.  
Like
0
Dislike
0
Agree
0
Disagree
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions