VIR starters/officials

[FullMoonRacing]

What was up with the "ref in training" throwing wrong flags this past weekend??  CCS has to tell these guys what a white flag means, what a checkered means.  That totally f***ed up a lot of guys!!!  If they can't handle the job, they shouldn't be out there.

[THE_D.O.C.]

hey wait a minute. i think i won middleweight supersport expert. all the fast guys pulled in and i completed the final lap!!!  ;D

[FullMoonRacing]

..Was a weird situation, no one knew what to do!  I heard from the guy that pitted next to us that the same guy did a similar "flag confusion" thing on Saturday!

[TightSqueeze]

What was up with the "ref in training" throwing wrong flags this past weekend??  CCS has to tell these guys what a white flag means, what a checkered means.  That totally f***ed up a lot of guys!!!  If they can't handle the job, they shouldn't be out there.

Just so the facts aren't ignored(I know, that would mess up your rant, but you're making it sound like there were mulitple instances.)

On lap 5 of a 7 lap race, the white flag was displayed.  It was displayed again during lap 6, and misinterpreted by most of the leading racers to be the checker.  Of the top 5, 4 pulled in, thinking the race was complete.

According to the Rulebook, the white flag is a 'courtesy' flag, as opposed to an operational one.  So, it is still the responsibility of the rider to determine when the race is final.

Ok, rant on...

[TightSqueeze]

hey wait a minute. i think i won middleweight supersport expert. all the fast guys pulled in and i completed the final lap!!!  ;D

Nope.  Technically, Mark Sherwood did.

[THE_D.O.C.]

Nope.  Technically, Mark Sherwood did.

joke steve joke. loosen up that jockstrap.

[FullMoonRacing]

Just so the facts aren't ignored(I know, that would mess up your rant, but you're making it sound like there were mulitple instances.)

On lap 5 of a 7 lap race, the white flag was displayed.  It was displayed again during lap 6, and misinterpreted by most of the leading racers to be the checker.  Of the top 5, 4 pulled in, thinking the race was complete.

According to the Rulebook, the white flag is a 'courtesy' flag, as opposed to an operational one.  So, it is still the responsibility of the rider to determine when the race is final.

Ok, rant on...

I know what the CCS Party Line is...
...but I still maintain that there shouldn't be track officials out there governing the races that don't know what they're doing and/or sending bad communications to the riders.  

[THE_D.O.C.]

yep. happens all the time though. there is this one time that this official named larry manor................................................................................. and this other time that larry manor.............................................

[r6_philly]

One other thing about this weekend's VIR races. The announcement of the races.

If I start to suit up when I hear the first call, I would have just gotten one leg into my suit when I hear the second call, and the third call would come just as I start to put the back protectors in.

Then we rush to pit out and sit in the sun for 5 minutes overheating the bike waiting for the 5 board.

I end up just start to get ready when the race before mine finishes one lap. But then it kind of sucks when they red flag or have to do pick up, because I would have my suit/helmet/gloves on and there will be another 15 minutes before my warm up lap. And it really really really hard to judge when to turn the warmers on.

[Mongrel]

Don't mean to sound harsh, but you should race until you see the checkered.  I have never mistaken a white flag for a checker.  I have run a few 11-lap races that should have been 10-lap sprint races.

[bfkidd]

I don't know what happened in that race. But, I would like to say that racing the Southeast and then racing some mid-atlantic/Florida events, I much prefer the Southeast starter and flagger over any other. Maybe it's just me. But they don't burn out your clutch at the start ala Mr. Summit Point, and they don't drop the flag before you even know what's going on like in Florida. I also get off the line better than anyone when they start the race so maybe it's just me. But I like it that way!

Chuck

[ecumike]

Sorry, a bit off topic...
bfkidd/Chuck, you the one usually pitting with Chris #32, from Kawi/Suziki Durham?

Sorry.. just figured out a name to a face... now back to our regularly scheduled topic...

[TrophyGal]

First of all before you start accusing anyone of anything get your facts straight. I, Trophygals husband is the Ref in training. I was not anywhere close to S/F when the white flag incident happened. I was called to observe how to handle the situation, which I did. The party that made the mistake felt very bad and did what he could to indicate the race had 1 more lap. It would be nice if none of us made errors (riders or staff), Then we would not need crash trucks, ambulances, referees and the schedule would be a breeze. All CCS staff want a clean and smooth weekend and try our best but sometime the human factor rears its ugly head. Triphygal and I have been at all the SE and MA races this year and there has been only a couple of very minor staff errors. By the way I have been Race Control up till VIR. See y'all in Daytona. Alan

[wera331]

trophey gal, I really like the blue placks,thanks

[TightSqueeze]

One other thing about this weekend's VIR races. The announcement of the races.

If I start to suit up when I hear the first call, I would have just gotten one leg into my suit when I hear the second call, and the third call would come just as I start to put the back protectors in.

Then we rush to pit out and sit in the sun for 5 minutes overheating the bike waiting for the 5 board.

I end up just start to get ready when the race before mine finishes one lap. But then it kind of sucks when they red flag or have to do pick up, because I would have my suit/helmet/gloves on and there will be another 15 minutes before my warm up lap. And it really really really hard to judge when to turn the warmers on.

Art Staples was the announcer, and I thought he did a very good job. He kept us abreast of the track happenings, got post race interviews, and wasn't too heavy on the ads.

As far as calls go, you can hear when the Halfway, white, and checkered flags are displayed.  You know you're the next race, so, personally, I don't even pay attention to the calls anymore.  Further, go buy a scanner.  That way, you can hear the interaction between the Race Org and the Cornerworkers.  You'll hear when there is a delay for track cleanup, transport, or cornerworker maintenance.

Sorry, but you guys are bitching about basically voluntary services.  So, either get off your duffs and help, or shut up and race.  You know when the race starts, and you know how many laps are in a race.  Use that thing atop your shoulders for more than just a helmet rack.

I worked tech in the mornings, ran 5 races on two bikes, plus practices, scored the other races, and was the starter for two of them.  We're busting our humps for your enjoyment and entertainment, so put a sock in it.  My recommendations is to give these people a big, 'Thank You' the next time you see them.  And they really like candy, cookies, and Red Bull, too. (Hint, hint.)

[bfkidd]

Yeah, that's me. He's at Metro now. How's the 'prilla?

[ecumike]

..... How's the 'prilla?

Crappy after I lost the front end in turn 17 in Sat. morning practice. Oh well, since I'm not going to Daytona, I gots lots of time to fix it up.

[pmoravek]

Don't let him fool ya....He just didn't want to face down the Fizzer in the Middleweight Sportsman race.

[r6_philly]

Art Staples was the announcer, and I thought he did a very good job. He kept us abreast of the track happenings, got post race interviews, and wasn't too heavy on the ads.

As far as calls go, you can hear when the Halfway, white, and checkered flags are displayed.  You know you're the next race, so, personally, I don't even pay attention to the calls anymore.  Further, go buy a scanner.  That way, you can hear the interaction between the Race Org and the Cornerworkers.  You'll hear when there is a delay for track cleanup, transport, or cornerworker maintenance.

Sorry, but you guys are bitching about basically voluntary services.  So, either get off your duffs and help, or shut up and race.  You know when the race starts, and you know how many laps are in a race.  Use that thing atop your shoulders for more than just a helmet rack.

I worked tech in the mornings, ran 5 races on two bikes, plus practices, scored the other races, and was the starter for two of them.  We're busting our humps for your enjoyment and entertainment, so put a sock in it.  My recommendations is to give these people a big, 'Thank You' the next time you see them.  And they really like candy, cookies, and Red Bull, too. (Hint, hint.)

Well if that is the case, why make any announcement at all. why don't you use that thing atop of your shoulders, and figure out that there is no need to make the first and the second call with the same breathe??? I enjoy listening to the announcer, I give a thumb up to the corner workers, I thank any CCS officials when I come across them.

I was just trying to say, if the calls are courtesy calls, and are supposed to help the racers, why not space them out a little bit. Because the way it was at VIR, you may as well not call the first seond and 3rd call, because it was not all that much helpful.

I don't really appreciate being accused of not using my head, and/or be told to put a sock to it. It's a public forum and I was making a observation. If CCS do not care about our opinions on how the events are run, then why did I receive a survey?

I didn't appear to not appreciate everyone who works at the events, why you so hostile toward my comments? By the way, you are not the guy who gave the wrong tech sticker so I got held up at pit out, got called back to tech so they can figure out that I got the wrong sticker, and in the process missing my 1st practice session are you?

[ecumike]

Don't let him fool ya....He just didn't want to face down the Fizzer in the Middleweight Sportsman race.

yea, yea, yea

[CCS243]

Oh my :-[  ::)
For what it is worth, I have tried to be consistant in giving the calls at VIR as follows: announce the halfway flag, 1st call on the display of the white flag, second call on the checkered and third shortly after the last bike takes the checkered.  If you figure 1:40 a lap (maybe you are faster), then it is about 4-5 minutes from first call to the time the 5 minute board is displayed.  
What can't be controlled is the folks who crash on the cool down lap  ;D.  If I know that there are pickups or clean ups, I have tried to let you know and hold on a second call or even delay first, based on the information I have.  It's not a perfect system, but best I can do.  Be happy to offer the mike and head set to any who would like to try it out.  
After racing from '85-'00 one thing that I want to avoid is having anyone sit at pit out in the hot sun.  :-*

[THE_D.O.C.]

don't forget that you pay for racing. way too much at the gate for the fees i might add. you can complain if you want. regardless of what steve clark says.

[r6_philly]

Oh my :-[  ::)
For what it is worth, I have tried to be consistant in giving the calls at VIR as follows: announce the halfway flag, 1st call on the display of the white flag, second call on the checkered and third shortly after the last bike takes the checkered.  If you figure 1:40 a lap (maybe you are faster), then it is about 4-5 minutes from first call to the time the 5 minute board is displayed.  
What can't be controlled is the folks who crash on the cool down lap  ;D.  If I know that there are pickups or clean ups, I have tried to let you know and hold on a second call or even delay first, based on the information I have.  It's not a perfect system, but best I can do.  Be happy to offer the mike and head set to any who would like to try it out.  
After racing from '85-'00 one thing that I want to avoid is having anyone sit at pit out in the hot sun.  :-*

Art, it was not a critism on how you did your job :) I rather like listening to your commentating, it was the only form of entertainment for me last year on my first race weekend, which was at VIR. Still remember the F40 race that could not be finished because they were running out of competitors ...

But what happened this time was, I felt that you may want to call the first call on the halfway flag, since it really is the start of lap 5, so only aobut 4-5 minute before the checker. reason is that on a hot day, most people get out of their leathers. So if you only allow 1:40 for people to put on leathers, boots, they feel rushed. Of course I can be suited up and ready to go when the previous race starts, but what if they had a red flag. Experienced racers (I guess I am) don't really have problem with it, but newbies and school graduates are nervous as is, and feeling rushed doesn't really help either.

You do a great job, and please keep it up, we all enjoy it :) but, if I start get ready at 1st call, I usually wouldn't be finished by 3rd call. So maybe a little more space between first and 2nd? please?

Thanks

[Eric Kelcher]

Well as Art has explained that is the same constant program for all CCS regions.

If you can't get ready by the calls then come up with your own system that works in conjuction with the announcements; at the start of of the race prior to mine I need to get my gear together and starting putting it on. On lap two run to bathroom, lap 3  slug gatorade, 4(1st call) have my leathers on, 5 (second call)start the bike put on helmet, checkered (third call) pull warmers and pull up to pre-grid.

[Bernie]

Art, you are my hero! ;D

[TightSqueeze]

By the way, you are not the guy who gave the wrong tech sticker so I got held up at pit out, got called back to tech so they can figure out that I got the wrong sticker, and in the process missing my 1st practice session are you?

Maybe.  I worked Tech with 3 others, so there's at least a 25% chance that it was me.  If I was, then I apologize and will buy you a practice session next season.

[TightSqueeze]

don't forget that you pay for racing. way too much at the gate for the fees i might add. you can complain if you want. regardless of what steve clark says.

I guess you youngster's weren't around when I got kicked out of CCS for complaining. :o

The problem is, that none of you complained about anything more surface than a white flag being displayed twice or the announcing.  That stuff is uncontrollable in the scheme of things, because Newsflash: people make mistakes.  You're trying to perfect something that will always have the variable of human flaw.  It's amateur stuff.  

Dig a little deeper and find things that can really use your input.  i.e. If it's a double points / multi-region event, expect that the LW GT should NOT be combined.  Expect that track time is at a premium, so maybe it isn't the best day for Learning Curves to utilize 45 minutes of track time.

Don't just bitch to bitch.  Find something that will help the race org improve the operation. Be constructive and offer solutions and/or alternatives.

So, your complaints struck a cord with me, because it sounded like a couple of 12-yr-old (foul mouthed) spoiled brats.  Fullmoon came out of the gate with f**k this and f**k that, and R6 came out with 'the announcer didn't serve my favorite flavor of ice cream.'  

If you have a complaint, delivery is 99.9% of getting a positive response and support on your issue.

[THE_D.O.C.]

i must say. that practice time was diminished considerably this weekend at vir. and, i noticed the entry fees weren't reflective of the loss of track time. especially on sunday.

[funksouljon]

Well for what it is worth, I had a great weekend. Almost worth the 8.5 hour drive 3 wide in my regular cab PU. :o
However, that #57 clown pulled off before I could get lap times on him. :) At least you didn't have a 6 lap GTU race. Or did you? That was a bummer.

[r6_philly]

and R6 came out with 'the announcer didn't serve my favorite flavor of ice cream.'  

If you have a complaint, delivery is 99.9% of getting a positive response and support on your issue.

Steve, please read my post again. It was not MEANT to be a complaint, It was an observation. I just recounted what happened. I didn't mention that it sucked, or it was bad, just that it was not all that helpful. I even offered my own solution to get around (what I perceived to be) short calls.

It wasn't whining, I just telling my recollection.

[TightSqueeze]

Well for what it is worth, I had a great weekend. Almost worth the 8.5 hour drive 3 wide in my regular cab PU. :o
However, that #57 clown pulled off before I could get lap times on him. :) At least you didn't have a 6 lap GTU race. Or did you? That was a bummer.

I was in GTO and GTLights.  GTO got cut to about 6 by the Red flag.  GTLights got cut to 6 by that, and all the rest of the Red flags.  Tough day.

[TightSqueeze]

Steve, please read my post again. It was not MEANT to be a complaint, It was an observation. I just recounted what happened. I didn't mention that it sucked, or it was bad, just that it was not all that helpful. I even offered my own solution to get around (what I perceived to be) short calls.

It wasn't whining, I just telling my recollection.

Reread.  Apologies.  
Mind clouded by the starter of the thread.  I lumped you with him.  I owe you a beer.