Tires, Tires...

[ChaP]

Hi everyone,

Getting ready to purchase my first set of replacement tires for my '03 F4i, which by the way came from the factory with D207's.  Have been hearing a lot of good things about the Pirelli Diablos and the Diablo Corsas.  I plan to take part in a couple of more trackdays this year.  So the tire bias will be more oriented towards street riding than track riding, but I would like to have a tire that can handle the occasional trackday without tire warmers.  Have been on the track in early November '03 with cold tires and it took a couple of laps to get heat into them (D207's), kind of squirmy.  Have been considering the Michelin Pilot Sports and have not heard much about the new Bridgestone BT-014's.

Any opinions and advise will be greatly appreciated.  

Thanks,
Patrick

[Super Dave]

I've heard good things about those Michelin's...but I have yet to sample any personally.  

However, the infomation that I have is that the Michelin's do seem to have the good longevity that they traditional race tires have.  We were hoping to have some of those tires at Road America when it was so cold as they might have been better than a race tire.

[motomadness]

Michelin S2 Front, H2 Rear - awesome combo

[apriliaguy]

hey Chap,
  the new dunlop 207rr are excellent for the street and trackday's.since you are new and your bike came with dunlop's put the dunlop's on and you probaly won't have to play with ride height's like you do with michelin's.

apriliaguy

[ChaP]

I appreciate all the replies to my questions.  I did not know that when changing to a different tire brand that ride height had to be changed.  

Apriliaguy, what you have said makes sense in staying with the same maker and I have considered the Dunlop D208 ZR's.  I have read a little bit about the D207RR's and they sound like a good compromise between a street and occasional day track tire.  I also hear that the Pirelli Diablo Corsas are the same in their bias of 70 track/30 street orientation.  But the street version, the standard Diablos, are biased 70 street/30 track.  

So many choices out there.

Again thanks for the feedback guys.

Patrick

[Super Dave]

It's more complicated than just changing tire brands...

OEM manufacturers often specifiy tires that are not the same as race tires or "track day" tires of the SAME brand that came OEM.

So, their contours and overall heights can vary...even in the same stated size.  

[ChaP]

Hey Super Dave,

I have heard a lot about you from a buddy of mine that hired you for instructions.  But it seems like that the tires themselves are changing just as fast as computers do, I mean the technology that goes into them.  Also I noticed that there are loyalists to certain brands, you know like Chevy and Ford people.  

I would love to buy the Dunlop D208's, because many places are blowing them out.  Is it because of the scare from the pre-Daytona tests, Mladin losing a tires at Road Atlanta, Spies blowing one at Daytona and DiSalvo too.  To me, it seems like Dunlop has busted balls to prove itself worthy again.

I hear good things about Michelin's, but some consider them to be icebergs of tires until they warm up.  

Besides Super Dave, I just set up my suspension to a slightly stiffer setting that I like very much.  I guess my riding style has changed, I mean in a more confident way.  

Anyways,  I am doing a lot of research on the net and trying to compile information about different brands of tires.  I am pretty sure that I will stay with a more street biased tire than a track one.

Again, any advise will be greatly appreciated.

Patrick

P.S.  Super Dave, my buddy's name is Bernie Conatser, you know the nut riding the TL1000R...hehe.

[Bernie]

Dammit Chappy!  Who are you calling a nut?  You should be getting your beauty sleep so you can set sales records towmarrow!  ;D

[ChaP]

I'll set the sale record tomorrow only if you will have a couple of suit cases of beer ready.  

What was it that one rider said at VIR Patriot, "Who's the crazy guy heaving around on blue monster?"

Besides, Dawg "Wheelie Master" will have to try to keep up with me...hehe.

Chappy

[Super Dave]

LOL...a whole suitcase...;D

Brand loyalty...

Yeah, it exists.  I have raced current production bikes on:  Avon, Bridgestone, Dunlop, Michelin, Metzler, and Pirelli tires.  I had sponsorship from Avon, Dunlop, and Michelin at one time or another.

For a period of time after I raced AMA regularly, I raced vintage motorcycles for their owners.  In 1999, I returned to 600cc production racing.  I had an opportunity through my sponsorship with Kawasaki to receive support from a manufacturer of tires...

But I made the consious decision to use Michelin tires.  Reason being that I learned that the longevity of their tires was outstanding (great when you are always on a budget like myself), the level of quality control always assured me that tires would be round and often required very little balancing.  Additionally, the relationship I had meant that IF there was something new, I would probably have an opportunity to try it out.

Bad things with Dunlops?  I know Jim Allen, and he knows me.  I think Dunlop makes a pretty darn good tire.  Let's get that out front.  The tire failures that they have had were during extreme uses by riders that are fully able to exploit the use of the tire.  These things can happen.

So, why would I choose the Michelin Sport tire?  I haven't ridden on it, but they were going to try to get us some to try out....

Anyway, Michelin has a huge base of knowledge.  If you've ever replaced your car or truck tires with Michelin's, you'd be shocked at how well they do what they do...I used to source some nice light truck tires for my van's...then I put on some Michelin's...wow!  Yeah, they may cost more, but they did everything better...

Michelin's DOT race tires have had a very close relationship with their racing slick tires since the late 90's.  Prior to that, yeah, they were related, but they didn't require the tire warmers so much.  

The sport tires are not designed to be a race tire like the S2/M2 front and the S2/H2/M2 rear.  Those, yeah, you really need a tire warmer.  The sport tire works in the application that it was built for...serious sport riding on the street, track days, and even a little racing.  On a hot day, it couldn't keep up with the Pilot Race.

Changing the bike's geometry?

It happens.  But, until you try a tire, it's hard to say that it's an improvement or an imparement.  Feel it a big part of it.  It is with anything related to a motorcycle.   Moving forks up and down, changing preload settings, and changing the shock length (if possible) is easy enough.  Especially when you're going to exploit a traction improvement.

In 1993, I raced on Avon, Bridgestone, Dunlop, and Michelin tires.  Each tire had a different contour (the shape) of tire and height.  It was that year that I learned that I had the responsibility to make changes to the bike to make it work.  I wasn't going to get the Avon to work with the same set up as the Michelin...the shape was so completely different on the front that I had to pull up my forks.  Similarly, when I got an opportunity to test the Dunlop 364 (then the cool hard to aquire tire), I found it didn't give me the same feel...ended up being that the chassis changed ended up with a reduction in trail, thus, it reduced my feel and caused my turn ins to be quite different.

That help?

[ChaP]

Dave,

Thanks for the advise and sensible logic on the street tire versus race tires.  The advise you have  given me will help narrow down the choices.  

Will let you know with which brand I went with.

Thanks very much,
Patrick

[ChaP]

 ;DSuper Dave,

As promised, I'm letting you know that I went with the Michelin Pilot Sports.  They should be arriving by the end of the week and I will have them installed hopefully the same weekend.  

Thanks for all the advise.

Later,
Patrick