Its easy to become expert...

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

the rule book is not clear on the 750 point bump...I saw no mention of the 12month period  or 750 points per class.  It just says 750 points!

Rule book, page 11. Section 2.2.4, sub cat A No 4. "Any Amatuer Rider who scores 750 points within a 12 month period".

[Kal]

To begin, Amatures should not have champions. It seems hoaky. Amatures are supposed to be slower, so a fast slow guy champion? WTF is that? OK I'll buy it if it's a 1st year amature, but not a veteran and it shouldn't be called champion. Rookie of the year would seem a better fit.
  
 Amature should be amature, NO money. It serves as an incentive to stay amature. Pay twice as far back in expert. A fast amature would still make money in expert and get a chance to compete with somebody.
  

I understand your point, however weren't you a Yellow Plater at some point?  Once you see that you could make a small portion of money to help cover some of the costs, you actually realize that racing isn't as deep of a money sucking pit.(I still can't see the bottom of the pit)  I'm brand new to racing and have actually taken home some wood and gotten a little money back as an Amatuer.  It makes good business sense for CCS to reward riders and make them strive to go to the next level, it only hurts if you finish a weekend with an empty bank account and a broken bike.
Remember there is always someone faster than you no matter who you are....So I could argue that Clear Channel shouldn't pay the regional racers and hold that money for the National riders...FUSA.  I could argue that being a regional champ means nothing.
But I don't feel that way and I feel that rewarding everyone from AM-FUSA is a good way to keep racers in the mix and take a SMALL hit out of the pocketbook.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

Once you see that you could make a small portion of money to help cover some of the costs, you actually realize that racing isn't as deep of a money sucking pit.(I still can't see the bottom of the pit).

     Being that your new, you probably haven't seen this very subject of amateur payouts argued into oblivion in the past. The main arguement is that some people became YPSB's (yellow plated sand baggers) because of alot of money that use to be available to the amateurs. These guys would intentionally always end up just short of the points needed to go expert, yet they would show up at selected events and win races or at least place in money paying positions. That type of rider is not what amateur status is intended for, it's for learning and getting up to speed. Many of us argued that amateur payouts should not be near what the expert payouts are, so as to encourage people to become an expert, and not want to stay amateur and collect easier payouts of equal amounts.

[cstem]

How about the MW over all champ last year, he was an expert the year before. He wrote a letter, whined how he wasn't ready and the previous four years he had tough times. He also stated the key words to guarantee instant down grade, He promised to be at every event and run ALL races he could w/his 600 and 750. Once again proving, if you can't win championships, they are definitely purchasable (if that's a word)

Thorny think about it, Expert, first year rider,rank amatuer or all around slowguy- if you enter allthe races you can on a 600 and 750, you are almost guaranteed a plate or championship.  Would this guy have dominated on just one bike running a few calsses?  Most likely not.  We, in the past had a guy win the #1 plate, he would enter almost every race (10 out of 13) run two laps to get scored and pull in.  When he stayed out he got back of the pack results yet he still won a expert #1 against some of the fastest riders in the Southwest at the time.  Now this dude yo uspeak of may have been a safety hazard as a amatuer, and even if he said he 'would enter every race blah blah' , should CCS say' It might look bad if we let him in Amatuer now, let's endanger the Experts and open ourselves to a lawsuit'.  Think about it- it is not a perfect world but even you could win the amatuer championship if you entered every race.

Also, GSXR Mike has some good points that I agree with.  Yes you can buy a plate in CCS, WERA or anywhere else.  I have been in this business for 20 years and Kevin Elliot much longer than that and ther is no real answer. I have taken to looking at it this way- THe number 1 pate means jack to me.  Yo can win the number one on a bone stock SV650 ( or even a EX500 if you are pretty good).  The true marker of a fast and competent rider is the Speedscreen Unlimited Gp class (for experts of course).  I have thought that this class should be the class that gets the top ten plates.  In the past though, it would have been tough to do this, but we have transponders now so tell me what you all think of this--Make Speeedscreen Unl GP top ten have a black number plate with white numbers.  Experts could still have their top ten wiht a white background.  Sorry yellow platers, no top ten numbers- we do not want to encourage people to stay amatuer if they really should be expert.  I also think maybe a Formula based on-finishing position, class entered, # of participants, maybe percent of lap record on weekend (?) could be made to simplify things.  It might just make them worse, I can't balance my check book so I have no clue how this formula could work.  Any computer programmers or math people here?  Lastly- anyone can petition to be bumped up or down.  If you would like to be held back, make it like a slow guy racer resume and send it in.  Outline how you only finished top five if the rest of the field crashed in turn one, how your lap times consistentley average mre than 110% of the experts times, how you only raced double points, include letter of recommendation form the riding school instructor and race director of your region (Kevin is going to ask them anyway) and let loose some facts.  If you want the heads at CCS to work to get you bumped down (or kept down) yo need to do some work yourself.  If you can present a flawless, complete and bulletproof case of why you should not be and expert- it will most likely happen.  If you just dropa email saying "Hey can you let me be and amatuer again cuz I am real slow and alot fo the expert guys say so? Thanks"  you will not win your case (I have seen emails like this!!)

So to sum it up-- Yes there are sandbaggers and racers who are not where they should be in respect to their riding experience (not speed). Yes, you can be bumped to expert too soon and can petition to stay amatuer.  Yes, championships can be bought (hell I could win one if I had the cash!).  Yes we need to utilize the computers and transponders and other tech we have available to make things better- send in your well tought out suggestions, not just cry baby bitching and moaning.  Yes, racing is not always fair, just or accomodating- just because you spent X amount of dollars does not mean you will get the perfect weekend experience. Yes, these are my opinions and not CCS- but we all can help each other if we are smart about it.  See you at the races.

[Eddie#200]

Mike.  Would you want to allow experts outside of the 110% to go back to amateur?

Back in the 1970's  (geezus I'm old) I Moto raced in Japan.  They would drop you back if you had a bad performance index. :P

[sdiver68]

I'm in favor of a 3rd class.  Somewhere for the weekend warrior / non-pro.  I just don't believe 2 classes is enough to cover the range from lapper beginner to Valentino Rossi.

Minus a bad accident, I would have had the #3 plate and 4 EX championships last year.  Yes, they would have been "bought" and I was nowhere near fastest.  But, the only thing I did was show up at each race weeked in the schedule and enter most classes where I could be competitive and paid $$.  I think it is wrong to rip on people "buying" plates or championships whose only wrong was they showed up and ran their races to the best of their ability and commitment level.

[r6_philly]

it has changed then Mike. Per Tiffany and Kevin, last year, it was 500 points per any given class. I would have been an expert after my first weekend...and was protested to do so, but to no avail, I stayed a true 1st year amatuer.  Without the double points in effect, I still earned 550 points that weekend.

But like always, I could be wrong.

it has not changed. It has always been 500 points total in the selective combine total points (As the overall points posted on the CCS website)

trust me, I know  ;)

[r6_philly]

let me fuel the fire and re-animate this dead horse!!!

nah... I don't think anyone running the show is interested in fixing something they don't think its broken.

anyone can petition to stay AM. They will approve it unless there is a reason not to. (instead of they will disapprove it unless there is a reason to approve it)

anyway, I can always stop racing one year and come back next June as a AM again right?

[r6_philly]

championships?

I went to 3 weekends this year, have a performance index of 300 something, best finish of 10th in class, and leading a class. ya that is such an accomplishment! After I got hurt, I started to realize how empty this championships are (because the way they structure it).

Now we race because we like racing. No pressure on any championship or points. If we want something to pursue, it sure isn't another plaque at the end of the year.

a few of my friends are having better time at trackdays.

[CCSRacer114]

People seem to be forgetting that the whole purpose of the Amateur class is to LEARN to be a competent racer.  That's it.  

Expert doesn't mean fast, it doesn't mean professional, it just means you've done enough races over a period of time to show that you are COMPETENT on the track.

If you feel that you want to LEARN something MORE after your first season, petition to stay amateur.  It's that simple.

As they say in Martial Arts: AFTER you get the black belt, the real education begins.

'Nuff said.

[Chuck]

That's what I was told by my Grandmaster as well when I was promoted to 1st Dan.  It is very true, it's nice to hear that again.  I need to get back to the studio again I miss Martial Arts terribly.  

[Bernie]

This thread should be re-titled "it's easy to get white plates".  Becoming an "expert" in the true meaning of the word is a very difficult and frustrating process.