Fun at Gateway

[Super_KC124]

Turn out was low. Not as bad as the single region event last year. Didn't hit any deer. Had to come from pit lane to a 2nd place finish in LW F40. I had fun.


Yes, K3, the truck is on the road again. Still stinks like burnt deer burger, though. ;D

[tigerblade]

Aren't you going to brag about dragging bodywork?   :P ;D

[Super_KC124]

Aren't you going to brag about dragging bodywork?   :P ;D

Not until I get my elbow down while doing it. ;D

[r1owner]

My brother (711 AM) and I (717 AM) had a blast!!! :)

We both claimed our first wood ever. :)

He got a 4th in MWSS.

I had the best time ever leading MWSS for about 2 seconds!!!  I passed 55 (Johnny Moore) I think is his name and went a little too hot into turn 6 almost highsided when I downshifted (didn't match revs).  He got by me on the inside.  Then I caught back up to his back wheel on the chicane leading onto the straight and pulled a wheel or two on him.

I started heading towards the wall a little too fast so let off a little too much.  That was enough to take second by about a wheel at the line.  All in all it was an awesome race.

Scariest moment(s) for me was when I got passed by three experts in seperate races.  Man, how do they go so dang fast!  Passed me like I was sitting still.

I still can't complain.

2nd in MWSS
2nd in MWGP
4th in MWSB
5th in ULGP

I sure hope CCS decides to run a few more races there next year.

[Aprilia_RSVR]

Hey
I got my first wood ever too.  It was also my first race ever.  OK, there were only four guys in the race.  But, I still wasn't last.

Gateway is my Home track so I would like to see a few more races here too.

AM #515

[PJ]

Turn out was low. Not as bad as the single region event last year.

Yeah, it's a real bummer when there's not enough guys on the grid to even qualify for tire contingencies. We missed the Pirelli cut off by one rider in Thunderbike.

What happened to LC's Dean and Brian? You guys high tail it home after Saturday?

It was a great race day though. Near perfect weather. And I love the Gateway layout, except for that goofy chicane (and the lack of run off). Too bad we're not going back this year.

[r1owner]

Yeah, it's a real bummer when there's not enough guys on the grid to even qualify for tire contingencies. We missed the Pirelli cut off by one rider in Thunderbike.

What happened to LC's Dean and Brian? You guys high tail it home after Saturday?

It was a great race day though. Near perfect weather. And I love the Gateway layout, except for that goofy chicane (and the lack of run off). Too bad we're not going back this year.

Finally someone else doesn't mind Gateway!  I have to agree about the weather.  It was perfect for racing.

[stumpy]

 Although I stayed on two wheels and got some wood, I did't like the track much, I think it is the whole "mental Wall" thing. Glad to pack the bike up in one piece. I gotta say the funnest part of the trip was my seeing my wheel bearing on my trailer blow apart ::) And that wasn't even that fun. :-/



Stumpy

[Super Dave]

Personally, I really, really enjoy Gateway.  

I had to go to prom Saturday night, and I don't have the budget to get to some races as I'm doing FUSA to raise money for my pediatric cancer program.  

Did I mention that I really like Gateway?

And I've had the pleasure of hitting the wall going into turn one.

[tzracer]

What happened to LC's Dean and Brian? You guys high tail it home after Saturday?

Actually it was myself and Jason D'Amico. Jason's bike needs some parts before he can race it again. We left Sunday morning. Jason had to get home to work on his house and I had stuff to do to get ready for work on Monday. Finals are this week, I have plenty to do.

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

I think it is the whole "mental Wall" thing.
Stumpy

Yeah, those walls are pretty mental all right...  I've won there and I've been hospitalized there, so I have a love/hate relationship with the place.  Wish I could have gone, but I have other races to make and Gateway just wasn't in the budget.
 By the way, My shoulder is healed and I'm cleared to full duty at work.  That means I can race again!  Yay!!!

[tigerblade]

By the way, My shoulder is healed and I'm cleared to full duty at work.  That means I can race again!  Yay!!!

Good news!   :)

[PJ]

Speaking of healing up...

Does anyone know how AM #757 R6 is doing after his crash at Gateway? I know he was transported from the track. Hope he's OK and recovering quickly. I was pitted next to him on Sunday.

[Chuck]

I love Gateway.  That was a nice Race Scott, I was behind you on the restart in front of you before the restart.  I finished 2nd behind Moore twice last weekend  :(  Hopefully we'll get him next time.

[r1owner]

I love Gateway.  That was a nice Race Scott, I was behind you on the restart in front of you before the restart.  I finished 2nd behind Moore twice last weekend  :(  Hopefully we'll get him next time.

Chuck,

Didn't get to meet you, but I saw enough of your rear tire in that race to feel like I know you! ;)

I was going to have a very hard time getting by you in that race.  It was a very fun race indeed.  Look forward to racing with you some more this year.

Scott

[Chuck]

lol  My pit crew told me you where on my butt that race, I didn't know how long I was going to hold you off.  Then I got a bad start after the restart and had to play catch up.  I think I was till 1-2 corners behind you two.  See you at HPT!!!  Stop by and say hello.

[Super_KC124]

I had to go to prom Saturday night,

I hope your date was a senior! Or do they have laws against dating minors up there? ;D

[Super_KC124]

And I really, really love Gatway also. Just don't look at the walls.  ;)

[Super Dave]

I hope your date was a senior! Or do they have laws against dating minors up there? ;D

Timing....comedy is about timing.  So is racing, for that matter.

[cabbage996]

Man I can't believe some of you guys actually like gateway.  It might not be so bad if they'd actually put the airfence/hay bales where a bike could actually make contact with the wall.  Every time I'd go around the track coming onto the back banking I was heading towards the wall aimed about 5 yards PAST the hay, same deal coming out of that thing they call a chicane.  Someone said something about it in the riders meeting but they just kind of ignored him.  If it wasn't so close to where I live, I'd probably just skip it, as I don't think it's worth much of a drive.  

[Bling]

I've witnessed too many people get F@#ked up at Gateway.  I've seen two riders colide going into turn one, hit the tires in turn three, and some really nasty stuff on the last turn going onto the front straight.

Tracks like Gateway, Nashville and Daytona should be left to the cars.

[lil_thorny]

I've witnessed too many people get F@#ked up at Gateway.  I've seen two riders colide going into turn one, hit the tires in turn three, and some really nasty stuff on the last turn going onto the front straight.

Tracks like Gateway, Nashville and Daytona should be left to the cars.

Geez, sounds like something that would happen while racing ;)

[Super_KC124]

 Every time I'd go around the track coming onto the back banking I was heading towards the wall aimed about 5 yards PAST the hay 

Sounds like your apexing the corner too early. ;)

[r1owner]

I did see one guy crash in 7 (back banking) he went right about into the middle of the airfence.

[cabbage996]

Sounds like your apexing the corner too early. ;)

That is entirely possible.   I was all over the place out there, first race of the season for me, and I haven't really rode much on the street for the past year.  

[Chuck]

I thought the plaement of the retainer was good.  The most crashes in that corner happen during the low speed compression bump in the middle of the turn, or the bumb right at the exit when your hard on the gas.  Those guys have been setting up that track for motorcycles long enough to know where it needs to be.

[Racingxtc7]

Chuck

  Come out to Blackhawk next weekend!!

Jeff

[Chuck]

LOL...your funny.  I'll be out there on July 17th-18th.  You be there!  Glad you stayed and raced with us.  See ya soon!

[Aprilia_RSVR]

Man I can't believe some of you guys actually like gateway.  If it wasn't so close to where I live, I'd probably just skip it, as I don't think it's worth much of a drive.  

True, it's not Road Atlanta but, it is close to home.  Any track time is better than none in my opinion.  I'll take more races here anytime.

[Super Dave]

I'll take more races here anytime.

The track started ramping up costs to CCS and everyone last year....they tried to charge above and beyond what they contracted CCS to...

And there doesn't seem to be a good turn out...

Back to the placement of haybales...

Everytime we go there, I find several places where the haybales are in the wrong place.  It's hard to be right.  Last year, I brought it up again and again.  And Greg Kritz hit the wall coming out of the last turn/chicane.

I'm not a whiner.  But I've been doing this long enough that I recognize the places that I think that I might fall down, and potentially others.  But a regular amount of apathy has been given to my input.

Not enough time to do anything?  Well, when you tell someone this on Friday...there is time.  When it's a racer that gets injured...one should make time.

[sdiver68]

The answer is not so much placement of airfence and bales, it is there are more needed.  

IMHO, 4 more sections of airfence would cover almost every crashing spot.  As it is they have to place them where the worst crash could happen, not nesc. where most crashes happen.

Great runs and results Scott, what race is next for you? (Plots comeback in head)

[r1owner]

The answer is not so much placement of airfence and bales, it is there are more needed.  

IMHO, 4 more sections of airfence would cover almost every crashing spot.  As it is they have to place them where the worst crash could happen, not nesc. where most crashes happen.

Steve does bring up a good point.  A couple more sections of airfence would make a world of difference there.

Great runs and results Scott, what race is next for you? (Plots comeback in head)

Thanks Steve.  I know part of the finish was because of the low turnout, but I'll take it!  Chuck and Jonny look to be hard to beat this year.

It was a pleasure being on the track with you again too!!  ;D :D :)  Seriously, it was great to see you back out there again.  

Sorry I didn't make sure you saw I had dropped off your leathers, but I had to get my stuff ready on Saturday.

My next race I am planning is BHF in July (gotta get a Super Dave t-shirt) and then Barber in August.  If I had more money, I'd be all over the place, but programmers pretty much have to work for peanuts now a days! ;)

So, since you're plotting, when/where can we plan to see your 1st appearance?

[cabbage996]

The answer is not so much placement of airfence and bales, it is there are more needed.  

IMHO, 4 more sections of airfence would cover almost every crashing spot.  As it is they have to place them where the worst crash could happen, not nesc. where most crashes happen.

Great runs and results Scott, what race is next for you? (Plots comeback in head)

Exactly.  How much does a hay bale cost anyway?  If they'd extend the bales even 5-10 yards it would have made me feel a lot better.  Maybe they could have taken the money out of the $50 garage fee they stuck to us this year.  That was a nice bonus, they said there were signs but I didn't see em, and it was free when I was there last year.  I guess I could have moved, but we'd already unpacked everthing before they made the announcement.

[Chuck]

Actually the $50 garage fee sign has been up since I took my License cours last year, but I feel ya.  We split a bay with 2 other racers...made it hella cheap.  It was also nice to have lights, I was up late both nights.

[Super Dave]

The answer is not so much placement of airfence and bales, it is there are more needed.  

I'll disagree a bit.

Yeah, a few hay bales would be great...

But, when a rider crashes, one will follow a tangent of the radius that they were following...basically a line from an upright position at the point one was leaned over...  Bales have been placed in places that are completely unlikely places to crash while the places of likely hood have been ingnored.

Time and again, I have brought it up to the race directors individually, and when nothing was done, I brought it up at the riders meeting where the directors had to make their excuses to the riders.  

Seldom has anything changed.  And racers continue to crash into places that are unprotected.

I don't think there are more crashes at Gateway that other tracks, but there are crashes there that haven't been good, as if any are.  Yeah, they have been related to set up, a rider responsibility, but scuffing up against a wall...should it be acceptable?  Should a vocal rider with some experience be listened to?

Why is turn out so low at Gateway?  It has never had a good reputation.  I personally like the layout, I enjoy the people.  But with the consistent problems with bale placement and lack of action by the race directors.  Why should anyone come?  With the consistent loss of a rider base, the races there are coming to a point where they won't pay contingency.  For some, that can be a saving grace to their program...I know mine needs it.

See everyone up here in July (BFR)?

[sdiver68]

I'll disagree a bit.

Yeah, a few hay bales would be great...

I am mostly arguing for more sections of airfence.

I'm telling you that I've talked to the race directors and MCRA crew and they have heard you, but disagree, having to place the fence at the place where the worst crash could happen, not where it is likely to happen.  4 more sections and they could place it everywhere outside of the chicane mostly, maybe 1 more outside of 7.

On the garage fee, the way I heard it from MCRA members is that Kevin had gotten a good rate on renting the entire space in years past and had bought it as part of the track rental.  This year, due to increased rent at Gateway CCS was unable to do it again, thus people got charged the 1/2 the usual rate...$50 for 2 days not $50 for 1 day.  While "free" is better, if you split a bay with 2-3 others it was still a good deal for sun protection, lights, and electricity IMHO.

As for why the low turnout at Gateway, there have been reasons that vary by specific event, but there is usually good turnout when the weather is decent and the MW region is included.  Which brings me to another point, I don't believe this area can support 3 regions.  Doesn't matter what track you are at, if you have a Great Plains weekend without MW also included, you get low turnout, see MAM and Gingerman last year.

[tzracer]

When we first went to Gateway, the garage fee was $50 per day. The space between the metal poles is 2 garages.

A few years ago CCS began to pay for the garages. Gateway raised their rates for this year, CCS can no longer afford to pay for the garages.

[Super Dave]

I'm telling you that I've talked to the race directors and MCRA crew and they have heard you, but disagree, having to place the fence at the place where the worst crash could happen, not where it is likely to happen.

That's an interesting option...

So, one is allowed to have volume crashes in one area while protection is offered for unlikely crashes?

Speed at exit is higher than the speed at the apex...so, more momentum...harder impact, etc.  

What's this fabled worst case?  Seems like that would be having the throttle stick open at any point where one is required to brake and turn.

The fact that someone is saying that they realize that someone things something isn't safe, yet they take no action...

The track has to be ridden with the idea that you ride for those opportunities that offer a reasonable amount of safety.  In some places, I have to have a larger margin of safety 'cause I have better things to do than be hurt.

I didn't have myself scheduled for Gateway for this season, but with all this information, maybe I shouldn't go again...Seems obvious that the input isn't worth saying...Why should I support any thing happening there?

Certainly riding at Gateway on a 600 at a 1:12 pace is different than a 1:06 pace, etc...Back to that margin of safety.  Who's at a bigger risk?

[Gixxer124]

Certainly riding at Gateway on a 600 at a 1:12 pace is different than a 1:06 pace, etc...Back to that margin of safety.  Who's at a bigger risk?

Now you see why I love Gateway! 1:12's on the 600, 1:13's on the SV650. ;D

[Gixxer124]

What Dave said. 1:12's = 1:06's. Less a couple seconds in turns 1 and 2. Less a couple of seconds in turns 7 and 8. Less a couple more through the temporary chicane. I'm not willing to kill myself in those "DANGER" zones. ;)

[Chuck]

Holy cow...who is doing 1:06's at Gateway within CCS???

[Gixxer124]

Holy cow...who is doing 1:06's at Gateway within CCS???

The fast guys. ;D Dave Newman had a 1:05 2 years ago on a GSXR750. Not official though. Paul Mason was doing 6's when he beat Mark Junge in MWSS.

[Chuck]

My Lord.  I couldn't imagine trying to shave 6 more seconds.  Really puts things into perspective.

[Super Dave]

To run up front on a 600 to a 1000 as an expert, you're gonna run 6's to 8's.  

Fast SV riders should be running 10's.

[Super Dave]

Ok, I'm going to rant a bit...

At what point should change take place?

I raced at Gateway for the first time in 1987.  Yup, 1987.  It was a different track then.  A drag strip built on top of a land fill with a road course.  

Then in the early 90's, it closed then was bought, and oval was built with an infield road course.  I was racing other stuff when WERA went there and riders got killed.  CCS went in 2000.  I was slated to teach the riding school for CCS that weekend.  

Needless to say, Between '87 and 2000, I've raced from coast to coast.  

I've raced on the current configuration since 2000.

Don't leave rider safety issues alone.  Do something.  Why should I feel the need to go there when nothing changes?  I supported it for quite some time.  I've given my input based on the discomfort that I have in certain places.  Certainly, you ride appropriately in those places...

But, like someone said to me, "Dave, if they're not going to listen to you, they aren't going to listen to me."  I'm flattered by the statement.  But, honestly, if they can't find it in their heart, or their liability pocketbook, to take the time to do something after all those times we've came there...

Why go anymore?

[StumpysWife]

Why go anymore?

I saw 2 riders and bikes hit the wall (not bales or airfence) coming on to the front strait.  They got up but the problem is when the bike and rider land, they end up in traffic no matter what.  No corner worker can get to them because of the traffic.  They are left there until the red flag comes out (which seemed to take forever).  It was disturbing to watch.

I don't see another Gateway trip in our future anytime soon.  

[Super_KC124]

I thought this was a thread about having fun at Gateway? :)

Fast SV riders should be running 10's.

Wow! Only 3 more seconds and I'll be fast! ;D