Coolant PoLL !!!

[KBOlsen]

PG here, too until the temps are more "seasonal".  At the season opener last year (Blackhawk) John and I had to scramble on Thursday evening at the end of the VisionSports day, going from store to store to find the appropriate stuff to replace the water/WW we had used to flush/fill the bike the weekend before.  

[Mongo]

Synthetic oils are rather common and are used by many racers....

And they are a nightmare to clean up when compared to their petroleum counterparts.  

So, should we stop using Syn oils?

I've seen more oil put down on a track than coolant.

Ding, ding!  Ready for number three...

I've seen more coolant put down overall.  However since the majority of rider have enough sense to use something like water or ww it's not noticed.  It evaporates.  It goes away all by itself with no cleanup needed.

Synthetic oils are harder to clean up but not as impossible as everyone seems to be convinced of.  I had one track tell me we were shut down for the day because they couldn't clean up a couple hundred yard of synthetic - we were racing again in 30 minutes with the only slipperiness being from the oil dry residue not the oil, the dust blew off in a ocuple of laps and we had a good track again.  Plain old clay based oil dry works wonders.  Based on this it isn't enough of an issue to ban it.  

[Mongo]

My figures were found under the tech info on Water Wetter.

http://www.redlineoil.com/products_coolant.asp

Dave and Mike:

Thanks for the additional info, I was going there next, but I couldn't have said it any better than you.

Paul has hit more oil on the track than coolant, perhaps its because he runs the Thunderbike class.   :o  ;D

Dawn  

I've looked and still can't find the testing of the products on asphalt and the loss of friction there.  Could you give me a direct link?

[Mongo]

Hey Tom:

What a first post!  Welcome to the board.  Anyone on here knows that I am not self centered (although I like to BS sometimes).

PG cleans up with water... So what's the big deal?

I have a good question and provided figures. You called me ignorant?  Convince me that I'm wrong.

We're not lazy, far from it.  We meticulous with maintenance.  If not, how could we have gotten 2 years of racing and seven championships without even cracking the cases on the motor?  Not by being lazy thats for sure!

Dawn  

PG causes peeps to crash more than water.  I've proven you worng in every post on the subject but you refuse ot listen - hence I gotta go with Tom...Ignronace seems to be as good a word as any.

As for your championships etc... What's that got to do with your unsafe practices?  And in the same vein as your self promotion to prove a point - you haven't run against fast people obviously.  Yep, that makes as much sense as your line does - none at all.

So anyway, how about that testing of friction levels on asphalt please.

[tzracer]

Mongo the numbers came from Redline's web site as Dawn has already posted.

http://www.redlineoil.com/products_coolant.asp

click on Water wetter tech info.

[Dawn]

Here's the direct link for the tech info.....

http://www.redlineoil.com/whitePaper/17.pdf

Mongo...

You've said you proved me wrong.  Where?  You say, they'll crash on PG and not on water.  Where's your proof?  It's hearsay.

Don't worry, we'll stay away from WERA (not in our area anyways).

Dawn  

[YamRZ350]

Hi Dawn. Thanks for the welcome.

I'd love to see were you got those numbers from, and who did the research.

No matter really, since your own numbers tell me that PG is worse when spilled than Water / Water Wetter.

Wouldn't you agree that anything we can do (no matter how small) to reduce the risk of a crash and minimize the clean-up time is a good thing?

You obviously take pride in your program and equipment. That tells me that you should know better than most that it is not a hard or time consuming job to drain a bikes cooling system. I'll borrow a quote from you,"what's the big deal?"

Let's set aside the crash risk argument for now and just focus on the clean-up. I am sure that any corner worker you ask would rather deal with water on track rather than PG. Don't you think this is reason enough to go thru a little extra bike prep.?

tom

I am still curious as to how you would respond to this.

tom

[xseal]

Super Dave is right. Everything is a trade off. The trade off for using Evans is minor, and very much akin to using synthetic motor oil.  Instead of spending all this effort debating two LEGAL forms of coolant, lets all head to the garage and give those bikes a once over so NOTHING leaks.

  M

[davegsxrold929r]

Agreed ;)

never a problem for me., even up north..

[Mongo]

Here's the direct link for the tech info.....

http://www.redlineoil.com/whitePaper/17.pdf

Mongo...

You've said you proved me wrong.  Where?  You say, they'll crash on PG and not on water.  Where's your proof?  It's hearsay.

Don't worry, we'll stay away from WERA (not in our area anyways).

Dawn  

I've given you proof - it's not hearsay if I've seen it with mine own two beady ones.  It's called being an expert witness.  I canonly think of a handful of people that spend as much time as I do at motorcycle roadraces every year and none that spend more, so that pretty much gives me the experieicne to make calls like this.  By the way - all those other people that have the same experience level, agree with me...  

I've read all through the links you've posted, still the same info they've had for years which is really nice but we're talking about the amount of traction lost on asphalt with each poduct, not how well it works or doesn't in the coolant system nor it's lubrication properties with regard to the water pump.

You posted numbers trying to make a point about slipperiness on a track, however those numbers don't seem to refer to anything about asphalt.  I've done my own experiments with all of these products and even have a sample of Liquid Performances' Ice Water to play with this weekend sitting on my desk. to see if it will be allowed or not.  This will be done via putting it on asphalt and seeing what happens with regard to the loss of friction, clean up, and evaporation.  I'll also spread it thinly to simulate a misting type scenario and see if there is a loss of traction.  I'll put your name on the gate list so you can get in free if you'd like to ocme help out and see proof wiht your own eyes since I can't be trusted.  But I'm willing to bet that still wouldn't be enough to get you out of your current mindset.  Heck, I even have a gallon of Evans NPG, the purple stuff, we can do side by side tests.

I've done this with PG and water wetter and with the Purple Ice (I think that's the brand name) stuff from Royal Purple.  WW and the Purple Ice cause no appreciable loss of traction compared to water.  PG however is a huge difference.  Wonder if that's why I changed our rules to no longer allow any glycol based products?  Nah.  I did it because I wanna be different from the AMA and CCS, yep that's the only reason that makes sense.

[Mongo]

Super Dave is right. Everything is a trade off. The trade off for using Evans is minor, and very much akin to using synthetic motor oil.  Instead of spending all this effort debating two LEGAL forms of coolant, lets all head to the garage and give those bikes a once over so NOTHING leaks.

  M

You call 4 bikes going down minor?

Wow.  What do you think of WWII?  A little skirmish overseas?  

PG is not necessary to a liquid cooled motor running properly, oil is.  Pretty simple equation a lot of people are for osme reason ignoring since it doesn't fit what they want to do...

[cornercamping]

 ;D  I'm coming to see the test.    ::) ;D