What a WHINER!

Started by OmniGLH, September 16, 2002, 10:06:40 PM

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OmniGLH

Found this on RoadRacing World's website, a reprint from their letter's section.

QuoteI e-mailed CCS about this problem I've been having, got no response other than we're looking into it. That was a month ago. At the first race of the season at Willow Springs there has been an Amateur racer that has been consistently winning. The only problem is that he's faster than most of the Experts. Kane Lasky was running consistently 1:24.20s while the fastest Experts were running 1:23.80s. Not too bad for an Amateur. He smoked the rest of the field.

At Phoenix the same thing happened, he was just a fraction of a second off of the fastest Experts and even the announcer was saying that during the race. Well, this last weekend in Vegas he was running 1:21 and 1:22s, the same pace as the Experts and in one race without a split start he made his way through the field and passed the first-place Expert rider, Robb Martin.

Shouldn't CCS be doing something about this? This guy is not an Amateur, and has no business being in a class where the riders are truly learning to race. The next thing I'd like to bring up is that the other two riders who actually got to race with him and actually beat him in one race are Experts at WSMC. David Sanders #909 and Jason Britton #749 are both Experts in a different club. Their lap times were also in the 1:21s and 1:22s. How could they have shown an Expert license from another club and get Amateur licenses with CCS?. What's next, am I going to have to race against AMA riders next, because they could probably get an Amateur license, too.

Len Novak
CCS Southwest #191
Las Vegas, Nevada
 

RRW's reply:

QuoteWSMC makes a guy an Expert after he completes three Novice races without incident, which is not the same as the Novice/Amateur programs used by CCS and WERA. A guy could be called an "Expert" in WSMC and have far less experience than an Amateur in CCS, because everybody is an Expert with WSMC after they finish three races on two wheels. And if this Lasky guy doesn't have any prior racing experience, and based on experience is really an Amateur, it's possible that he's just fast, faster than some guys with Expert ratings. We've seen it before, with Jamie Hacking when he was a WERA Novice; a rider's ranking is based on experience and points, not speed, which is relative anyway. In other words, we're not sure you have a legitimate complaint here....Editor

I couldn't agree with the editor more.  Simply because he's fast, he should get bumped?  What a bunch of crap.  I had the pleasure of racing against him at Road America this past August... that guy was SCREAMING.  And I say, more power to him.  He wants an Am. National Championship, he's winning, he deserves it.  I don't get why people crab and whine about him... why not try to LEARN from him instead?

When I first started racing mid-season this year, here in the Midwest, Andy19 and Chachere227 were the two guys that pretty much mopped up in Am.  (granted, they weren't as fast as Kane, but they were still typically 4-5 seconds faster than the rest of the pack.)  All that did, was make me want to haul ass to catch them.  DanO and I would try to follow 'em around at open practices and track days, watch them during their races, etc.  Gives you a goal to shoot for.  

I don't get some people.   ::)  Len, stop whining, and start riding faster.  In the meantime, I'll watch Kane's career... and next year, when he starts kicking butt in ProAMA, I can say I used to race against him  :)
Jim "Porcelain" Ptak

THE_D.O.C.

because these guys will end up second behind him and be bumped up without a chance to win. what is this guys story? is he truly an amateur, or one of the famous "petitioned" amateurs who have prior race experience? if he is truly brand new to the sport, then more power to him. if he has prior experience, then he should be moved up. this happened two years ago with a petitioned wera novice named ed cobb. he won wera national challenge races, and then wera allowed him to remain novicethe following year. he then slaughtered the novice ranks in wera and ccs the entire year. in my opinion that was wrong, and no one in wera or ccs had the backbone to move him up. it happens every year somewhere. unfortunately, you can't police people's integrity.

Litespeed

Since I race in the CCS SW region I guess I will add my comments.  Kane has some previous racing experience but it is my understanding that it was a few scattered races over a couple of years.  He has recently been able to make the full season and is putting in a large scale effort.  He is one of the most dedicated people at the track and deserves to win.  The only person to effectively challenge him this year is Dave Sanders who is in his first year of racing.  He has a ton of talent and is very fast.  Overall I don't mind finishing behind these two because they deserve to be ahead of me.  I haven't put in near the effort required to win the races but I am getting up near the top 5 consistently.  

My comment to Mr. Novak's article:  I am a first year racer with very limited street experience which mostly consisted of riding to work and two canyon rides that actually had curves.  At the Las Vegas round (my third weekend racing ever) I finished 8 positions ahead of Mr Novak in MWSB, 2 in MWGP and 12 positions in MWSS.  Shouldn't someone be at least be in contention before they actaully start whining about cherrypickers?

THE_D.O.C.

agreed. but shouldn't fair competition be an obligation for wera/ccs to provide? where is the line, and how do you enforce it. somebody consistantly walking away from the field in novice ranks seems weird. in expert/pro ranks it's different, but what about amateurs? there is a whole lot of opportunuity for speculation. amateurs beating the expert field is a bit odd don't you think?

OmniGLH

???

Why should Amateurs be held to different rules than Expert?  "Waaah, he's too fast, it's not fair!"  Even tho it's the beginner class, SOMEBODY has to win it.. It's STILL racing!

Complaining that the guys are too fast for you?  Fine.  Go join NESBA. That's what they're there for.

Litespeed - absolutely.  He has NO reason to be whining... he's not in contention to begin with.  What, does he think that if Lansy got bumped, then HE would automatically start winning???  I don't think so.  

Jim "Porcelain" Ptak

THE_D.O.C.

#5
god do people ever read? i said "if it is his first year then great. if he is a petitioned novice then it should be reviewed." the fact is, he's raced before, and is now whipping up on experts. he clearly doesn't belong in the amateur ranks. how do you quantify speed and experience? you can't.  i'm not an amateur, i'm just someone who can see what is going on.

i suppose you think martin L. king jr was whining too? it isn't whining to ask about things you percieve to be wrong. the guy wanted an explanation. he got one.  

OmniGLH

Quotegod do people ever read? i said "if it is his first year then great. if he is a petitioned novice then it should be reviewed."

Perhaps you should read your own posts clearly.  He is NOT a "petitioned" amateur.  He's never been bumped to expert.  This is his first FULL season, he is a TRUE amateur.  I verified this myself in talking to the CCS/FUSA officials at the Road America event.  He is a true Am.  So he can beat most experts.  Good for him, he's still an Am. He just happens to be a very FAST Am.  

If CCS listens to all the whiners, and bumps him because he wins too much, or because he's too fast, then that paves the road for a horrible future.  They bump Lansky, so the guy who usually takes 2nd place starts winning.  The whiners whine, he gets bumped.  The next guy moves up the ladder, gets bumped, and so on, and so on.  Next thing you know, my little sister is winning Am races on her Spree, cuz anybody that can actually ride, gets booted as soon as they start winning.

Sucks for those of us that have to compete against him this year, some people just aren't fast enough to win the championship next to him.  It sucks.  But that's racing.  Quit whining and learn to ride faster.
Jim "Porcelain" Ptak

THE_D.O.C.

#7
who's whinig? you certainly aren't talking to me. i iliiustrated that the crurrent rules have been taken advatage of. i asked this guys story. he's beating regularly the front experts, and it's odd.  did you think that everyone would agree with on this? sorry that i don't. i'm sure that there is more to this "super novice" than meets the eye.  you can try to brow neat me all you like. but amateurs don't, and shouldn't beat the leading experts.

sdiver68

It's my understanding, though through 2nd hand and 3rd hand information, that KL is on an Ex-AMA bike and has committed significant time and money to this season's campaign.  If so ???, good for him, he has put in more than the other AM's and its paying off.  I can't wait to see him at Daytona, if I make it that far :D  There is another CCS and CRA "super" AM being talked about on the WERA board, Steve Atlas.

Sucks for some people, but no more than the guy who's riding a clapped out CBR600F2 every other local race against series regulars who make every Friday track day on a SB prepped 2002 GSXR750.  That's racing, and until you get a Full Honda Works MotoGP ride, there is always someone who will out resource you for the next race.  
MCRA Race School Instructor

DanO966

#9
Well I guess Lasky going so fast...just means we all need to ride faster?? ;D ;D
Hell I wish I got a chance to race him.  I would of at RA but I'm not going to get into that.....CCS >:( >:(
Anywoo he rails!  And I'm sure that he's reading about everyone raggin' about him and he laughing.  He soaking it all up!  Keep an eye open for him he fast!
 As far as he should move up.  Maybe but, let him have his glory he'll be expert next year and you all don't have to worrry about him anymore.  I'm hoping when I go expert I'm fast enough to contend w/ him.  Mads props to him and his ability!  
DanO CCS/WERA/AMA/ASRA #966
Convergence Technologies/MD Racing
'12 Yamaha R6
'11 Yamaha R6

GAMEDIC

I wish i was that fast and you could complain about me...i would print it all out and put it on my wall  ;D

TZDeSioux

More power to Lasky for whoopin on everyone. Even if he's had limited racing experience prior to this season. I can give you over 10 amateurs in the midwest reason alone that have raced more than 2 full seasons as amateurs who are still racing as amateurs and doing pretty well. What is the big deal? Are they cheating?? No~~ They are following the rules.. and the rules allow you to stay amateur an extra year for whatever reason as long as CCS approves it. God forbid if it weren't for the 500 amatuers in my region that are faster than me.. I would be champion. I hate racing against 600s.. any and all 600 riders should turn expert next year regardless of how many years they've been racing so that I might have a chance in the middleweight races.  ::)