Why Motorcycle Road Racing is better than Nascar..

[Super Dave]

Nextel Cup has prototype tube chassis cars that use restricted componentry from engines to steering boxes to brakes to suspension.  All in an effort to:

1)  Eliminate special factory involvment

2)  Maintain close racing

Not all spectators are drinkin' fans either...just like motorcycle racing fans are not so called "bikers".

As for passing, let's talk about the Daytona 200.  

It's a boring endurance race.  Was there any closeness other than the start?  

There are a group of very tallented riders in AMA Superbike that could run up front and potentially win, IF the playing field were more level.

As it is.  It certainly isn't.

What do we have...six guys with full factory superbikes...and the rest with Superstock bikes?  

To have a better race, make 'em all have Superstock bikes, restrict the tire choices to certain compounds that are available to all competitors, restrict suspension components to certain part numbers that would be available to all competitors, how about a spec fuel, weight limits on bike and rider rather than just the bike...

MotoGP is to cars as F1.  

AMA Superbike isn't even related to anything NASCAR.  You'll have to go to SCCA to find a comparison for production based racing.  And we don't see that on TV now do we?

[BERZERKER]

EX, contact my wife, she races in CCS and is employed by NASCAR!!!  e-mail her at nicole@draganeeracing.com

[digitalRoost]

As for passing, let's talk about the Daytona 200.  

It's a boring endurance race.  Was there any closeness other than the start?  

That's why you'll see "possible" in my comments above. To be honest, AMA is kinda lame in that you rarely see the kinds of battles that exist in World Supersport for example (in my mind, the closest racing around...and funnest to watch). I personally think (I know this is a tangent so I'll be quick) that Superbike racing should be left for 1 or 2 series worldwide. That way ALL the manufacturers will be able to afford it and really throw their money around. Local stuff (e.g. AMA) should focus on SuperSport because in the end that is what we as consumers can buy. It also makes for closer racing. There's a lot of details on my theory that are better saved for another day.

[grasshopper]

I like to call NASCAR racing TOILET BOWL RACING  ;D

[Lowe119]

IMO- Nascar is like the current version of gladiators. People just want to go watch their hero beat the other guy. Other racing - like F1 and cycle road-racing - requires skills that the general public does not comprehend. Watching Rossi back into a corner at 150 has no affect on them. They don't understand brake-markers, apexes, turn entry, weight shifting, and the speeds these people are doing - because there is not a wall 10 feet from them to reference.
How long does it take for a nascar driver to 'learn the track?' 5 minutes? They don't have to do anything to go into a corner, except lift off the gas. They just ride the line they chose. They don't even shift on some tracks, do they?
I watched them race at Sears Point and they were pathetic. Some teams bring in other drivers, because they suck so bad.
This isn't even going into the other dimensions that motorcycles have over cars. The only thing a car driver does to affect his car is step on a pedal and turn the wheel. Imagine everything we do in a turn to feel and adjust our bodies to make the bike do what we want.........multiple dimensions added.

[Lowe119]

Just compare it to how Rossi test drove the F1 car and beat their test rider's times. Then fathom them doing it the other way around. There is NO WAY a nascar driver would be able to hop on a factory bike and have a competitive time in a short amount of practice. But I bet it wouldn't take long for a AMA pro to jump in a stock car and run with them....

[lil_thorny]

Just compare it to how Rossi test drove the F1 car and beat their test rider's times. Then fathom them doing it the other way around. There is NO WAY a nascar driver would be able to hop on a factory bike and have a competitive time in a short amount of practice. But I bet it wouldn't take long for a AMA pro to jump in a stock car and run with them....

great point...and it has to do with talent.
I personally have raced carts and roadraced in the skip barber/neon challenge series. I can share from two points of view. When racing the carts, I encountered many motorcycle roadracers in carts to stay sharp during the off season. We would often times use 1/4 mile tracks and infields for our road courses. The banks were close to say Michigan
or Texas... 25 degrees or so. For fun we would run mini NASCAR races in the carts. Let me tell you,
regardless of handling, running those banks at speed (90mph) was not easy. To do it for more than 20 laps...it takes someone in pretty good shape.
The stresses on your body are much greater than that of Motorcycle racing. The cars don't handle as well...period. they grip more, but are less forgiving.
You feel everything in your body rather than what the tires are doing.  From a spectator standpoint,
Moto is far more stimulating visually. IMHO. At our level, anyone can meet and get to know any of the riders. Not so for NASCAR. Back to the stamina issue...in Moto racing there is no comparison to cars...you can rest in a car...you don't get arm pump in a car...you do get shoulder fatigue, but not enough to cause you to crash potentially. The sound of 42 NASCARS rumbling past the stands is awesome.
The sound of a pack of 6 Superbikes wizzing by you at 170 MPH at Road America is equally heart and ear
wrenching.

For me, it's about comparing the two...cars
vs bikes...and the most obvious difference is the fact that we aren't strapped in and surrounded by 1
and 3/4 inch steel piping when we crash at over 100 MPH.
When people watch NASCAR crashes, they say
"dude, that was awesome"
when we crash they say" Oh my God I hope they are
allright"

Motorcycle racers deserve more respect for that alone.

One other thing, we can't bump draft and get away with it. We have to be sure to slow down and or pass "cleanly" rather than pushing somebody up the track.

NASCAR= big industry/  big entertainment
Moto RR= big brains/ big skill

oh yeah, they don't race in the rain either!

Benj.

[Frank_Angel]

Just compare it to how Rossi test drove the F1 car and beat their test rider's times. Then fathom them doing it the other way around. There is NO WAY a nascar driver would be able to hop on a factory bike and have a competitive time in a short amount of practice. But I bet it wouldn't take long for a AMA pro to jump in a stock car and run with them....

That would be something if it were true, but it's not. Rossi drove at Fiorano, and all of the Ferrari test drivers (Schumacher, Barrichello, Badoer and Burti) have lapped that track faster than Rossi. Schumacher has the record, and it's 4 full seconds faster than Rossi's time. Oh, and Fisichella got the Sauber/Petronas around Fiorano faster than Rossi in the F2004. Rossi didn't beat anyone's times, unless you're referring to something else?

Anyone here think you could jump into a Nextel Cup car and get anywhere near the lap time of a back marker's time? If so, you're dreaming IMHO.

[lil_thorny]

That would be something if it were true, but it's not. Rossi drove at Fiorano, and all of the Ferrari test drivers (Schumacher, Barrichello, Badoer and Burti) have lapped that track faster than Rossi. Schumacher has the record, and it's 4 full seconds faster than Rossi's time. Oh, and Fisichella got the Sauber/Petronas around Fiorano faster than Rossi in the F2004. Rossi didn't beat anyone's times, unless you're referring to something else?

Anyone here think you could jump into a Nextel Cup car and get anywhere near the lap time of a back marker's time? If so, you're dreaming IMHO.

Who here would want to is the real question.
I would for sure, give me 50 laps and I guaranteeeee I would be close.  Tom Cruise came within 2 10th's of the pole at Charlotte during the filming of Days Of Thunder. No way is he going to out race me ;D  
I've spent way too much time playing NASCAR 99/
Heat...to not give em a run LOL

[Super Dave]

How long does it take for a nascar driver to 'learn the track?' 5 minutes? They don't have to do anything to go into a corner, except lift off the gas. They just ride the line they chose. They don't even shift on some tracks, do they?

See, you're doing just like the NASCAR fan...

Ok, I'm a motorcycle racer.

My mentor and friend when I was doing AMA stuff was Dale Quarterley.  Dale has an AMA #1 plate for something or another.

Dale won the AMA Superbike National at Mid-Ohio in 1993 on his Kawasaki.  Beat Polen, James, Edwards, etc...  Just flat beat them all.

Now, I was introduced to Dale in 1991 as part of a B team to his A team.  At the time Dale was racing in select Busch NASCAR Northeast races.  

So, I asked which was harder.  Cars.  His answer.

http://www.bgnn.com/drivers/quarterley.html

There are four corners on a car that have to get set up right.  The window of opportunity is much tighter.  Additionally, with only two entries and two exits, there is no opportunity to make up time at one place.  

Don't belittle another form of racing because it's easy.  I don't think racing is easy at all, even on motorcycles.  If it was, we'd all be making a living doing it, right?  Or we could just be car racers for a living and race motorcycles for fun in our spare time...

[Super Dave]

oh yeah, they don't race in the rain either!

Well, the AMA doesn't race at Daytona in the rain either.

[Super Dave]

I would for sure, give me 50 laps and I guaranteeeee I would be close.  Tom Cruise came within 2 10th's of the pole at Charlotte during the filming of Days Of Thunder. No way is he going to out race me ;D  
I've spent way too much time playing NASCAR 99/
Heat...to not give em a run LOL

I think he was able to use a non-restricted car.

As for someone no familiar with a Cup car doing that well...

Benji...you've got a bike similar to Denning's.  He did a 1:10 at Blackhawk.  That's a ways away for you yet.  

I'll kick your butt in Madden NFL though....