Arron Yates troubles

[r6_philly]

R6philly, you call that assault? Give me a break. Yates made himself look stupid. Head butt to helmet and missed drop kick, I'll bet that really hurt? You want to sue him for taking Fania out? That was a major racing blunder but maybe you think a suit might be in order? You won't get an apology this time. Can I retract the apology I gave you before? Because now you're showing "your real colors" and I was right the last time about you! I've seen a lot worse in NASCAR and other organizations that don't get to this level of "lunacy"! Maybe you could get into professional wrestling. There's got to be some great law suits there for you and your "suit happy" friends! Let the AMA do their job. They are the only ones that can do anything reasonable about it. And if you happen to disagree with their decision, so be it!

HD

HD

henry, there is a different between a police investigation and a suit.

The state attorney can and do sometimes file charges without anyone pressing the charges.

In an assult case, it would be Aaron Yates against The state of Florida, not Anthony Fania. Fania filed an official statement under the request of FL state attorney in case crinimal/court proceedings are pursued. It is pretty much up to the state attorney to move on the case.

Remember, civil complains are not filed with the state attorneys office, they are filed in common pleas court or similar.

If monitor and other propertiues are destroyed/damaged and not compensated by the yosh team, KWS team can also file civil suit to recoup the losses.

A law suit is only frivolous if an absurb amount of money is requested as intangible "damages". Crinimal proceedings are never frivolous, if it is, the State of Florida will not participate.

And Henry, why is that if I disagree with you on one thing, I am automatically wrong in everything else? If I race in Florida region and was protested, are you giong to rule against me just because I am me? I don't know how I have offended you so far? difference of opinion doesn't have to become personal dislikes. If I was living in Florida, am I not welcome to race at your event now?

[r6_philly]

at no time did I agree with a civil suit, I was just stating crinimal proceedings should be allowed to continue, not that you can stop it if state of FL decides to go ahead with it.

A civil suit seeking property damages from the pit incident is possible, and I don't have a problem with that. I just agree with what is fair, no more no less.

a suit seeking emotional, or other damages would be out of line, but we are not talking about that here. No need to jump on it without fulling clearing what we are talking about here

[Super Dave]

Let the AMA act. Law suits and assault charges are as "nuts" as Yates actions.

HD

That's like letting Janklow's appeals for early release being heard by the judges that he put in to positions.

Isn't Mel Harris of American Suzuki on the AMA board.  I think the strings might be pulled...

But there is a lot of outcrying from the public.  Might be time for someone to be used as an example.

[Super Dave]

I think that the other rider should have let the AMA handle what happened.He just gave the sport another big kick in the balls by going to the state attorney office >:( >:( >:( >:(  

How many of us believe the AMA would have done something on their own?

Without the potential action by Mr Fania to take reasonable action for crimial charges, I almost doubt that anything would have happened.

Certainly, if we make our own responsible for their actions, we show that we're responsible for our actions.  

I got smashed by a stupid Englishman in Turn One when he got spooked.  Wasn't my bike.  It was a priceless Team Hansen Honda CB450 that I was on.  I was pretty excited, but I certainly didn't think about going and pounding on the dummy.

I think most people act that way, right?

Failure to control yourself in a manner that is consistent with the parameters of proper actions will land you with problems.  

I'm sorry, but if you're gonna do something so dumb...And be on TV?  

He'll be charged, and he'll probably be convicted of some kind of misdemeanor because he was a dummy.

Flopping down on the track, throwing gravel on a race track...those are dumb things too.  Just all over due since some people can't seem to understand that the rest of the world's racers understand how to act like adults.  

Do we need that in the AMA/FUSA/WERA rule books?..."Act like an adult."

[Tourdot675]

I think it's very well put "How many of us believe the AMA would have done something on their own?"

If a potential civil suit forces the AMA to do something about it, good!  The AMA should be pro-active in dealing with issues, but from past examples it is far too possible that they may let this one 'slide' with a slap on the wrist.  

And finally, the whole idea that the sport doesn't need this...as they say in politics: 'any publicity is good publicity' :o  Who knows, maybe we'll get more people interested just because of a little controversy?

[hdpromos]

Nobody injured in the incident following Yates/Fania crash. Keep the attorneys out of racing as much as possible and let the AMA do their job. You guys are acting like a pack of "jackals"!
R6philly, we don't hold grudges down here just because you're on the wrong side of an issue like this. You can expect to be treated just like anybody else that competes. That, I promise you. :-*

HD

[MELK-MAN]

my .02c that i posted at JenningsGP.com

1) I know im not in the majority here.. but there still is somethin said for Fania potentially not turning in when he should have to make the turn. I see fania still upright when Yates is comming over on top of his wheel, shitty pass?? you bet, but i think there was a chance the 2 riders could have turned in but the closing/pass speed, yikes!!
2) Fania was partially to blame for the head butt!! YES! (you read correctly-yes.) he had a choice to just keep on a walkin after Yates did the very very fake drop kick. But he instead got in his face and gestured and for sure gave Yates a piece of his mind.. head butt commin atcha.. NO worse than some stock car guys argueing about who took who out and comming to a pushing match.. THESE GUYS were NOT playing tiddly-winks!! they had been racing at perhaps the most prestigous road race in america, and it went wrong in the blink of an eye.. tempers are gonna flare! BOTH guys were wrong and im thinking Yates simply thought Fania shoulda tipped in, i think he freaked and stood it up.. I HAVE DONE IT so i know the feeling that Fania was experiencing..
FLAME AWAY
 :)

[Super Dave]

Poor choice of words from one should be responded by...well, words.  A head butt, kick, slap, or anything phyisical is not a proper response.

In reality, a man would have walked away.  

Didn't Yates start the confrontation with the poorly executed flying drop kick?

As for the converging lines...

The lines that a full Yoshimura Suzuki would take before the apex would be a little different than something less.  Regardless, the slowest speeds would probably be close to being similar.

There in is where the problem always is.  In a superbike race, the riders are pretty good.  So, the mid corner speeds can be similar.  How the bike reacts and the line that reaches that point when you're dealing with machines that are not similar is the problem.  200HP with works Showa forks, brakes, Works Suzuki Swingarm, etc...vs 150 with KYB forks with worked over internals, aftermarket shock, etc...

The first rule in any form of racing is that the guy in front has the "right of way."  Fania was in front.  Yates' decision on which line to follow did one of two things:  1) converged into Fania's line  2)  Fania made a minor error that caused his line to go wider than normal, thus traveling into the potential line that Yates was trying to follow.  Mind you, he wasn't there yet...he was still behind Fania.

Regardless, doesn't everyone recognize that he should have gone up the inside where Yates would have been the safest?  Certainly, I do, and I'm sure most people do.  Yates picked the wrong way to pass thus reducing his reasonable margin of safety.  All he had to do was finish, right?  Everyone's tire was worn by now.  It's still debateable if Fania actually went wide.  Whether he did or not really doesn't even matter.  He was in front, Yates picked the wrong line, riders collided.  That would have been it under racing circumstances, right?

But, Yates took us out of the honorable "that's racing" world by throwing a hissy fit, one which I wouldn't expect my five or seven year old to do.  

That really has nothing to do with racing.

If he finished fourth, would we have looked at the books written about Daytona with great admiration on how well he rode?  No, it wasn't any kind of a stellar performance.  But his lack of moral judgement is inexcuseable.  

If his mom or dad got into an accident with someone, would he want someone to treat them the way he did Mr Fania?

Maybe that's the guide on this one.

[lbk]

Well since this is such a heated topic I might as well touch it too.

The problem I see with Yates actions being justified is that they are justified by the racing actions. Who hit who, who was at fault, who provoked who is all outside of the issue that is truly trying to be dealt with.

That issue, is a physical action taken towards one person. Whether it happened at the track, on the street, in a bar or wherever. It was a physical attack, one that was carried out only by Yates. Forget for a moment that this even happened in racing. Two guys got into an argument, words and jestures were exchanged, but only 1 of those two people took it to a physical level. That's a fact! Even after the physical actions were taken, none were returned by Fania. Now if we look at well he wasn't hurt, ok well again take it to a bar situation. Two guys get into an argument, make jestures, talk about each others moms, one of them pulls a gun and shoots, but misses the person. Does that reduce the fact that it was an attempt, is it then only going through the motions?

Bottom line is, the issue isn't about racing it happened at a race and that is too bad. The issue is whether or not it is acceptable in any situation to take physical action because of the circumstances. If you look at that, and you can still say yes I find that acceptable then you are at least looking at the true issue. Of course then you have to ask how far is ok? Fists are ok, clubs aren't, clubs are ok, but guns aren't? Where do you draw the line?

I'm not saying one way or the other, just throwing ideas out there. My opinion is my opinion doesn't make it any more right or wrong only our society can decide what is right or wrong. Whether that society is the social one that involves everyone or a subset such as the racing community.

If we (we beeing the racing community) stand behind decisions, then we (again the racing community) have to accept the results of those actions, and we have to do that as a whole, not just one or two of us.

One last thing, is a crime only a crime if the circumstances don't allow you to feel compasion for the person that did it?

[MELK-MAN]

Poor choice of words from one should be responded by...well, words.  A head butt, kick, slap, or anything phyisical is not a proper response.

In reality, a man would have walked away.  

Didn't Yates start the confrontation with the poorly executed flying drop kick?

As for the converging lines...

The lines that a full Yoshimura Suzuki would take before the apex would be a little different than something less.  Regardless, the slowest speeds would probably be close to being similar.

There in is where the problem always is.  In a superbike race, the riders are pretty good.  So, the mid corner speeds can be similar.  How the bike reacts and the line that reaches that point when you're dealing with machines that are not similar is the problem.  200HP with works Showa forks, brakes, Works Suzuki Swingarm, etc...vs 150 with KYB forks with worked over internals, aftermarket shock, etc...

The first rule in any form of racing is that the guy in front has the "right of way."  Fania was in front.  Yates' decision on which line to follow did one of two things:  1) converged into Fania's line  2)  Fania made a minor error that caused his line to go wider than normal, thus traveling into the potential line that Yates was trying to follow.  Mind you, he wasn't there yet...he was still behind Fania.

Regardless, doesn't everyone recognize that he should have gone up the inside where Yates would have been the safest?  Certainly, I do, and I'm sure most people do.  Yates picked the wrong way to pass thus reducing his reasonable margin of safety.  All he had to do was finish, right?  Everyone's tire was worn by now.  It's still debateable if Fania actually went wide.  Whether he did or not really doesn't even matter.  He was in front, Yates picked the wrong line, riders collided.  That would have been it under racing circumstances, right?

But, Yates took us out of the honorable "that's racing" world by throwing a hissy fit, one which I wouldn't expect my five or seven year old to do.  

That really has nothing to do with racing.

If he finished fourth, would we have looked at the books written about Daytona with great admiration on how well he rode?  No, it wasn't any kind of a stellar performance.  But his lack of moral judgement is inexcuseable.  

If his mom or dad got into an accident with someone, would he want someone to treat them the way he did Mr Fania?

Maybe that's the guide on this one.

I agree with everything your saying, what i posted above was an opinion.. I have not read anything about the fact that it is POSSIBLE that Yates was still a little loopy from just having crashed into a tire barrier at pretty high speed.. it is POSSIBle his judjement was impared. I still think that everyone trying to bring general public behavior into a race environment and not excusing SOME behavior however poor it was, is not putting ones self in the racers position. Again. just my opinion, yates shouldnt a done it but Fania "fanned the flames" with words no doubt..
You all have my permission to give me a head but provided my helmet is on if you think im silly :)

[G 97]

It was reported that Yosh team broke a monitor in the Fania pit. Apparently it is a thug org. Cycle news has a good report.

Don't put too much into what you read or was reported.  We were pitted a few spots down from the KSW team.  Although there was some extra activity between the two teams I can tell you that the reporting of it has been somewhat sensationalized.  As far as the broken monitor it's not like the Yosh guys went running under their EZ-up grabbed the TV and smashed it on the ground.  
Yes, a monitor was broken but a more accurate description should include "while a heated debate was going on between members of the two teams".  I think it basically just got knocked off the table while members from the respective teams were positioning themselfs and yelling/pointing/ restraining others etc.  
Basically nothing more than a very heated debate.  Sorry I can't put fault with just  Yosh with this.  

Yate's behavior is another story.  Totally uncalled for and it should be dealt with very severely.  Even though Fania did not hold his line and came out on him.  Fania was so far on the inside that there is no way that Yates could have even attempted to pass him anywhere else but on the outside.  When Yate's went on the outside  Fania came out on him.  
Plain and simple it can be described as just one of those racing incidents.  Yate's behavior afterwards was uncalled for.

[Super Dave]

Fania was so far on the inside that there is no way that Yates could have even attempted to pass him anywhere else but on the outside.  When Yate's went on the outside  Fania came out on him.  

Everyone recognizes that this happened in the West Horseshoe...

The radius of the corner is not the same as the International Horseshoe.  

Forever, riders have always exited the kink stayed on the right side of the track, started braking.  Then the track drops away from you quite dramatically in a straight line just before the center of what should the the middle of this 180 degree corner.  Everyone "drifts wide" there, and you always set yourself up tight against the inside curbing so you can gas it hard picking the bike up at the exit so that you don't get tossed by the seams at the exit and the off camber spot at the edge of the track.

Isn't the crash almost immaterial?

Yates isn't being fined for hitting anyone, right or wrong.  He was a stupid, spoiled 11 year old kid on a sugar high.  

And if we're gonna claim him as being impared...then no rider should ever race during a weekend when they do fall...they might be impared too.