why does daytona not promote FUSA races

[Super Dave]

no, one entry per event, back up cars are necesary/required and only permitted if primary car is damaged significantly.

I believe that several years ago, each entry was at least $32,000.

more in the neighborhood of $1500 per event

My info my be dated.  
 

An organization doesn't make a racing series good.  The teams do.

An organization creates the series not the teams. NASCAR teams weren't getting the big corporate money until the series was in front of large TV audiences, thanks to the start up of cable and ESPN.
Look at CART, or what's left of it, and the AMA. Both struggling to have a top level racing series. As long as teams, sponsors and manufacturers have control in the decision making process of an orginization the series will always have serious problems and only cater to a select few.

CART was always awful as an organization.  However, the series flourished because the teams took the responsibility to promote themselves and what they were doing.  

So, as all things, spectators showed up to see the drivers for particular teams.  

Even the AMA...could be a lot bigger right?

sure could, first step would be to kick out the manufacturers

At least have a comprehensive set of rules that are reasonably attainable and are enforced with regularity.  Opposing manufacturer teams claiming other manufacturer teams suspension components to prevent claiming by privateers and their teams...?

Football games are nice.  So is NASCAR.  So is bike racing.  But the reality is that I liked watching Terry Bradshaw when he played.  Brett Favre is exciting to watch.  So is Matt Mladin...  I like Mark Martin.  They could all race belt sanders and I would enjoy it.  

Often the failure of motorcycle racing is in the promotion of the riders...the guys that make things go.  How many ads in mags have you seen that had pictures of guys with their knee on the ground, but no caption with a name?  You might have known who it was, but to the rest of the world, it's just a helmeted guy.  

Sure, you go to Europe and the socialist economies tax the living daylights out of everything that people can't afford to move out of 1000 year old cities, they have econo cars or scooters...bikes are part of their lives and fabric...it makes sense that it is popular in Europe.

Anyway, organizations have the opportunity to buy the track time, pay the insurance, offer a purse (if it can be made available), rules, etc.  If you rely on them to promote the biggest product, the riders, then they are going to miss out.  Maybe if you win, you'll be in a press conference, but after than, you'd better get out your own press releases.

Loudon...the AMA is not a promoter.  They are a sactioning body.  So, when Loudon pays the AMA the sanctioning fee, they now have to provide a purse and promote the event.  The AMA goes away, FUSA comes in.  FUSA is buying the track time, etc.  Yeah, there is a bigger purse at Loudon...probably some residual from the track or something, I don't know that, but understand how it works at the AMA level.  

The tracks actually buy the event, then spend money to promote it to make money.

Gate fees too high?  Hard one.  

There are those that thing that the competitors shouldn't pay for gate fees because they put on the show...  But seldom have I seen racers that people came to see at club races.  Back to the racers themselves...no promotion of what they do.  If people came to the track, who would they want to win?

I raced with AHRMA for quite some time for some bike builders.  We'd have people that would come back the next year to see what we had done to the bike and how I was gonna put the smack down on the Yamaha two strokes.  That's what it's all about.  In like 1996/1997, the AHRMA event the weekend prior to the AMA PRO event out drew the AMA national...65,000 people there to see vintage bikes race.

So, for the racers on this thread...what are you doing to promote yourself.  No one knows anything about you until you tell them.

[Super_KC124]

Hi, my name is Kevin. I race for Donnell's Suzuki and I'm older than Dave Rosno. :o

[r6_philly]

My original thoughts were just: it is quite effortless or costless for DIS to put our races on the schedule. But maybe AMA doesn't like it. I don't buy the its not a spectator event theory, because I have seen advertisements, promotional materials both by DIS and FUSA, just very limited.

As for racers promoting themselves, that is the way to go. No one will take us seriously before we take ourselves seriously. But being club racers and limited budgets, it becomes a chicken and egg problem.

So Dave, or anyone else, how do we promote ourselves, without breaking the bank? I had previously asked the questions about racers' websites, obviously we need to keep our promotional stuff current, before we go publicly promoting. but how do we do that?  Dave you been in the game for many years, maybe you have some pointers.

Lets see, I am a first year expert. I was pretty fast as an amatuer, and I could have some potential, to be a pretty good privateer, in my opinion, it is not out of the question. So maybe one day soon I can be like greenwood, acree, or wait. Or maybe not. But if only the fast guys go and promote themsevles, we will never progress. So then even the mid-packers should run their own media campaign right? Would anyone care, or appreciate?

Lets say I start sending press releases to RRW, would it get printed? If the industry standard press would not acknowledge me, why would the public media?

Lets say I start promoting my race events attendences. Would they come? if they come, is FUSA/CCS ready to accomodate real spectators? I remember Pocono was a pretty good show. Expo, stunt competition, concert, test rides, the people did get a good show even though they didn't know who the racers were. And there were lots of people. But I haven't seen it anywhere else.

I can probably get 100+ people to come to summit point during the FUSA event. Would they feel the value is there? would they come again? I don't know if people would think I am running a bad show by convincing them to come. The FUSA event at Summit is no more than a CCS weekend. No national atmosphere, no expo, and no entertainment for a large crowd. Would they come again?

I have been discussing, and exchanging ideas for a couple years now on how to do our part to grow the sport. I am also very committed to do what I can to promote myself and my sport. But does the organization care, or want to help? I can be as professional as I want, but if I am just participating in a dog and pony show instead of a real circus, would people feel cheated to come? I emailed FUSA to ask about how to get my team's profile on the site, or try to start some promotion for both my team and FUSA, and I don't hear back from them. I also wanted to set up contingency program with them, and I don't feel that anyone is too interested (WERA and CCS).

There is only so much I can do. I don't run the show. The show runs the show. If the show is not ready for primetime, then no matter how I can promote myself, does it matter?

If I run a TV ad for myself and ask people to come to see me race, and I be as professional as I can be, would people still go home thinking its a joke? until that changes, how can we go forward? and why and how can one promote themselves? Must we all race AMA and NOT finish in the 30th + to start?

[Super Dave]

What to do?  Again, this is where I draw the line.  I'll tell my students what to do, what I've done, and advise, etc.  But I won't tell generally.

But it's not hard.  For most...do anything...because they have done nothing.  And coming up with new ideas.  

Hey, if motorcycle racing was the way that you made money, you'd be doing more to promote yourself, right?

[hooter31]

last oct. i got a call from someone at DIS to make me aware that there was races going on during biketoberfest...i explained to her that i was one of the racers.she was very pleasent and asked if i had any ideas on how to promote the races better,i gave her a few ideas...but what DAVE is saying is true,we must inprove our image from within...we must try to look as professonal as possible.seeing guys walking around at events without their shirts on that are part of teams makes it very hard to bring in sponsors to help pay for the event

[the_weggie_man]

WebCrush, you said it correctly...MX,SX, Freestyle MX are huge because of the kids. But we don't race MX!

The kids can't jump on a mini roadracer and ride in their yard or field or local roadrace park like dirt riders can. The crossover from MX to roadracing is almost nil. The kids grow up riding MX and continue riding MX.

Yes there are successful mini roadracing clubs around but who are the riders? Mostly adults that don't want to spend the money to race big bikes. There are very few kids riding these things.

Check the cost of MX racing compared to roadracing sometime. It's night and day. Therein lies one of the problems with roadracing in general. It's very expensive and that makes it difficult for anyone to start much less hang around long.  

Also, how many ex-roadracers do you see at the track spectating? I'd venture 7 out of ten never go back to the track once they quit riding or maybe go once a year to an AMA pro race if there's one close to home. Most don't like to spectate. If they're not riding they don't want to be at the track. Partly due to not wanting to pay the high gate fee.

Gate fees are normally split between the track and race organization. The percentages vary from track to track. I personally don't think the gate fees are too high. Two days of racing for $20-25 is not out of line. What did you pay for your last concert ticket for a couple hours? Your last movie ticket for 1 1/2 hours? I do agree there should be a one day ticket.
 There used to be, but then everyone had to leave the track on Sat. after the races and then sign back in if they were staying for Sunday. It was very inconvenient and some people cheated by hiding out in trailers, vans, motorhomes etc. and didn't pay for the second day, thereby cheating the track and the organization and other racers.

It's a difficult situation because the racers want to camp at the tracks but not go through the hassle of leaving and signing in again.  CCS has been paying back gate fees to people that leave on Sat. but some racers complain about that too because in order to get your money back you had to leave by 5:00 pm. They expected to have someone sit out there all night. Figure out the system that makes everyone happy and I'm sure the race organizations will listen.

We are a very, very small segment of the motorcycle world, which itself is a very, very small slice of society.  I love this sport and have been directly involved in it in some way for well over 20 years now. I would love to see it grow but I don't think the big lights and huge crowds will ever be there, sorry. If you can prove me wrong someday, beautiful. I look forward to it but I won't hold my breath.

[WebCrush]

Comparing a professionally run concert or $50 million dollar budget movie to club racing is a terrible example.

Gate fees are too high, and a perfect way to test this out would be to offer lower prices (or even free) for an event and see what the turn-out is.  

Similar to a movie event, the track should focus on making its money on additional purchases (ie food, etc) rather than on the gate fee--thats where movie theatre's actually make their money, not on your ticket, but they are forced to charge admission just to cover costs.

If tracks do not have the costs to cover (cuz the riders are already pretty much fronting all that money) then why charge the gate fee for potential spectators?

The reason is that track owners are more interested in lining their pockets than helping promote a sport (although it would benefit them in the end).  Due to the shortage of roadracing circuits in many areas, they maintain a control on availability and prices and they know if MC died tommorow, they're would be something else to fill those lost dates (karting, trackdays, scca, even bicycling!!)

I think now that every region seems to have a new track sprouting up (created by demand) we may start to see owners smarten up and find they need to change things around if they wish to retain our track rental fees.

[Super Dave]

Well, first, the track is not buying the event.  Usually, in club racing, the organization is buying the event time from the track.  

Food is often done by contract by someone other than the track.  So, the track is just renting the space to the food vendor.

Regardless, the event would need something to see.  How about watching one 250 Ninja compete in a race all by itself?  

As for track owners lining their pockets...how about dropping $200k in legal fees so that you can continue making noise in the same area that you have since 1967?  Doubling in insurance costs?  SCCA now requires that the whole track be lined with some kind of barrier?  Air barriers for motorcycles?

Generally, I always saw the problems with the riders.  Amateur riders misrepresenting themselves to the general public, lack of promotion from riders about their results, etc.  Hey, when I was contracted to Kawasaki, I was required to send in a monthly form recording my riding, finishes, changes in fuel, oil, etc.  At least they knew what I was doing.

A lot of this starts at home.  You can win championships in a void.  Or you can actually write in down in crayon and tell your supporting dealer.  

On the flip side, I didn't even know that Chris Ulrich was going to do FUSA with Arclight until this evening.  

[WebCrush]

On the flip side, I didn't even know that Chris Ulrich was going to do FUSA with Arclight until this evening.  

Sounds like no one else knew either.  No more Emgo, huh?  Is he racing the 750 class or the 600s as well?

[Super Dave]

Don't know which class.  Just caught something that clued me in on FUSA, that was it... ???

[the_weggie_man]

Terrible example? I thought we were talking about what a good show motorcycle roadracing is? If you're saying the show is no good then I realize why people don't want to pay the money. Make up your mind.

What I was comparing was the value for the time involved. $20-25 gets you two full days of racing compared to 1-2 hours of the other stuff you pay through your butt for.

Gate fees are too high ..... when is the last time you coughed up $1-2 million to repave a race track? How long do you think it takes to recover that kind of expense?  Try fighting all the people that sue you for their own ignorance or just the lack of accepting responsibility for their own actions? Check what it costs just to open the front gate at any track before anyone even starts an engine before you make a statement like that.

I imagine you bring a cooler to the track? Maybe a grill? How does the track or a vendor make any money when so many people bring their own food and drinks? Maybe there should be a no cooler/drinks/food policy so everyone has to buy from the track refreshment stand?

We'll see how many of these new tracks are around in 10 - 15 years and how many are going to be used for the main street through a new subdivision because the track owner went broke and sold it off making more money than he ever could keeping the gates open.

You know were all in this together, we all want the same thing, prosperity for whatever we do. Whether that be track owner, racer, race organization or track vendor. We have to quit blaming everyone else for the cost involved. If you really want to blame someone, go after the trial lawyers in this country and the stupid, non responsible people that hire them daily. They are the reason we have $500 helmets, $1000 rear shocks, $350 tires, astronomical insurance rates and on and on including your high gate fees.

Off my soap box now, I'm done with this subject. ::)

[Super Dave]

I'm with you Gordy...

John Edward...Dem Pres Canidate...trial lawyer.

That's the evil of the American economy.  I can pretty much draw a line from there to every problem we have...

So, the question is:  which racer is going to work to make their program more part of the show rather than begging for track and organizations to do something....

 ;D