ultra lightweight superbike

[68]

can some one please check the rule book and tell me what bikes are legal in this class?

email me at patw@rivamotorsports.com


  

[ecumike]

Is your internet broke?    :)


http://www.formulausa.com/forms/rulebook2004.pdf
Page 15 :

6.3 SuperBike - SuperBikes are based upon production models, sold by manufacturer and their dealers anywhere in the world
for street use via normal commercial channels. Proof of compliance rests with the competitor entering the motorcycle. All
machines must have unaltered VIN numbers. CCS reserves the right to declare unusual or limited production machines
eligible for SuperBike competition. All machines must meet the standards of Section 5 as well as the following.
6.3.1. All machines must meet the equipment standards of Section 5, as well as the following:
A. Frame and engine cases must be from a production, street use motorcycle, except for single cylinder motorcycles,
which may use any frame or engine. Note: Two stroke GP type machines such as TZ 125 and RS 125, etc. are
excluded from CCS SuperBike.
B. The frame must be as originally supplied by the manufacturer on the approved model. Strengthening gussets or
tubes may be added. Only brackets or tubes not supporting suspension, engine, or drive line components may be
removed. Swing arms may be modified or replaced and rear shocks may be replaced or relocated.
C. Reducing engine size of machines from stock displacement to meet lower class displacement limits is not allowed.
(i.e. a bike that is a Heavyweight in origin cannot be re-sized for Middleweight competition.
D. Any fairing may be used if it meets the requirements of Section 5.
E. Liquid cooling is not allowed unless original equipment on the model being used.
6.3.2- SuperBike Class displacement limits are absolute and are set as follows:
ULTRA-LIGHTWEIGHT SUPERBIKE (Amateur & Expert Divisions)
Single cylinder, unlimited displacement, unlimited frame
Two stroke, liquid cooled, up to 515cc
Two stroke, air cooled, unlimited displacement
Twin cylinder, air cooled, non-desmodromic valves up to 900cc
Twin cylinder, air cooled, desmodromic valves, up to 805cc
Twin cylinder, air cooled, 2 valve, push rod, up to 1050cc
Twin cylinder, liquid cooled, pre-1999 model year, up to 700cc
Three cylinder, non-fuel injected, up to 900cc
Four cylinder, liquid cooled, pre-1987 model year, up to 570cc
Four cylinder, liquid cooled, 1987 to 1992 model year, up to 500cc
Four cylinder, air cooled, up to 750cc
Harley-Davidson Sportsters of unlimited displacement
NOTE: Ducati/Bimota/BMW Supermono & Woods Rotax machines are excluded from this class.

[the_weggie_man]

What am I missing here? This is ULTRA-LIGHTWEIGHT? Unlimited a/c two strokes, 1050cc twins? WTF? ??? ???

[EM JAY]

   It's going to be a crazy misfit class!  ;)  Someone had said something about a "mad max" type class.  ;D ;D ;D

[Zac]

What am I missing here? This is ULTRA-LIGHTWEIGHT? Unlimited a/c two strokes, 1050cc twins? WTF? ??? ???

Let's see, what would be the most competitive bikes in this class: Aprillia RS250, Ducati 750SS, FZR400, I'd consider those to be Ultra-lightwieght.  I think if a good rider showed up on a well built Tigcraft Minimoto they could rule the class on the smallest bike out there.  Any a/c two-strokes would be severly limited by their 20 year old chassis.  As far as pushrod 1050 twins, maybe I could convince them my 4-vavle Guzzi is legal, because it has pushrods, they're just really short (about an inch).  I hope a bunch of old odd-ball stuff shows up, that can make very interesting racing.

-z.

[TreyBone]

So by the rules....... a 1989 GSXR750 would be legal?

It is air cooled up to 750cc. ;D

[Eric Kelcher]

There are no air cooled GSXRs. The GS series is/was air cooled.

[ecumike]

Now wait a minute... THIS doesn't make sense...

ULTRA-LIGHTWEIGHT SUPERBIKE (Amateur & Expert Divisions)
...Two stroke, liquid cooled, up to 515cc...


LIGHTWEIGHT SUPERBIKE (Amateur & Expert Divisions)
...Two stroke, liquid cooled, up to 450cc...

Did someone goof on this one? Lightweight is LIGHTER than Ultra-Lightweight?

[throttle]

correct the gsxr are oil or liquid cooled.

i dont think they were thinking across classes when they did the cc rules. They were thinking in class.

[G 97]

Is CCS really this desperate for entry fees?  Sad. Very sad indeed.  

[Super Dave]

There are no air cooled GSXRs. The GS series is/was air cooled.

GSXR's didn't get water cooling until 1993.  GS's still had oil cooling just like the original GSXR's.

So, which way is it?

And chassis limitations on old bikes...I did a 2:06 with no pressure on me on the old Daytona configuration (slower lap times) on a 1969 Honda CB750.  Set up, set up, set up.

Desparate for fees?  I don't know...they put together several classes that were taking up space that wasn't getting used.  Don't see that they are going to get "a lot" of entries.  If they wanted more fees, they could just add $5 to every class entry.  You know you'd get the money.

As for the name "Ultra-Lightweight"...just consider that this is the class with a huge performance index.  Lightweight used to mean RZ350's and EX500's.  Then the Honda 650 Hawk came along.  Then the SV650.  So, the displacement, and valve number requirements, were changed.  You certainly wouldn't expect the SV650 to compete on a level playing field with the 600/4's.  And I wouldn't expect a 1969 CB750 to compete against GSXR750's.

If some unique entries come into the program, it will be cool.  Get some of them to enter Thunderbike too.

[tzracer]

Where have you guys been?

Ultralightweight superbike is the old lightweight and middleweight sportsman classes combined.

[EM JAY]

Where have you guys been?

Ultralightweight superbike is the old lightweight and middleweight sportsman classes combined.

   Dont forget Supersingles!  ;)

[MZGirl]

 I hope a bunch of old odd-ball stuff shows up, that can make very interesting racing.

-z.

It's ok...the two of us out there racing should be pretty interesting.  Especially when I lap you.   :-X ;D

[ecumike]

Where have you guys been?

Ultralightweight superbike is the old lightweight and middleweight sportsman classes combined.

AHHHHHHH... that explains it, kinda.

[Eric Kelcher]

GSXR's didn't get water cooling until 1993.  GS's still had oil cooling just like the original GSXR's.

So, which way is it?

92 GSXR was actually first year for water cooling by 93 all were water cooled. The rule is liquid cooled not water cooled.
All GSXRs are liquid cooled, the 1985-some 92 GSXR used SACS (suzuki advanced cooling system) which utilized the oil to cool engine with cooling jet under the pistons and oil run through head solely for cooling purposes.

[Zac]

92 GSXR was actually first year for water cooling by 93 all were water cooled. The rule is liquid cooled not water cooled.
All GSXRs are liquid cooled, the 1985-some 92 GSXR used SACS (suzuki advanced cooling system) which utilized the oil to cool engine with cooling jet under the pistons and oil run through head solely for
cooling purposes.

Uhh, hate to burst anyone aircooled Ducati riders bubble, but the Ducati 900SS (commonly considered an air-cooled bike) used oil jackets in the cylinders for cooling, would that make it liquid cooled?  Even better, they determined the engine cooled better WITHOUT the oil jackets, and designed them out a few years back.  And many air-cooled bikes (and a lot of water cooled ones) use the oil jets to cool the pistons crowns.

-z.

[Zac]

It's ok...the two of us out there racing should be pretty interesting.  Especially when I lap you.   :-X ;D

Hmm, did I forget anything when I put that MZ engine back together?   I can't seem to remember...  :-*


-z.

[throttle]

I am glad to see that Mr. Kelcher is paying attention. I have a feeling therer will be some protesting this year in this class (the Mad Max class).

[pmoravek]

I'm thinking the Honda Hawk is legal for this class.
Any arguements there?

[250hillis]

hey mike it to bad you cant run in this class, unless you have something other than the 125

[Eric Kelcher]

Yes on Hawk Gt Twin cylinder, liquid cooled, pre-1999 model year, up to 700cc

Other bikes I see as being competitive are XB9R, FZR400, Aprilia RS250, Ducati (several that would fit  Monster/SS 750) MZ, open class Mxers, RD/RZ, EX, triumph.
I think it would be cool to see an old school CB/KZ/GS 750 superbike in the class.

[250hillis]

eric, can the class be renamed to the 'Lightweight Reunion Superbike Class'

[Dave_Alexander]

Personally, I just don't see this class going anywhere.  All those interesting bikes being mentioned were legal for the Sportsman classes too so where were they?  There just weren't that many bikes running when there were multiple races to enter so why should there be more now?  Who's going to go to all the trouble and expense just to go out there for one race?  I ran Sportsman but now I only have one race and it's just not worth it.  I think this class will die and budget racing will be gone.   :(

[EM JAY]

Personally, I just don't see this class going anywhere.  All those interesting bikes being mentioned were legal for the Sportsman classes too so where were they?  There just weren't that many bikes running when there were multiple races to enter so why should there be more now?  Who's going to go to all the trouble and expense just to go out there for one race?  I ran Sportsman but now I only have one race and it's just not worth it.  I think this class will die and budget racing will be gone.   :(

I thought it would be bad too, I only ran sportsman like twice, never made it to the Saturday races, so I usually only did ONE race on Sunday, occasionally towards the end of the season I did more as I got comfortable.  What are you riding?  If I can be competitive on a stock MZ with no suspension work or anything and finished not to bad, you should be alright?   ;)  

[ecumike]

hey mike it to bad you cant run in this class, unless you have something other than the 125

yea, I know.  But this 125 was waaaaaayyyy worth it. this thing is incredible. It's soooo fun and fast and I've only ridden it once!

[throttle]

Mike are you going to daytona and jennings?

[ecumike]

Yea.. I'll be at Jennings. It's the USGPRU opener.  But I'll be doing the GTL and LWGP races also.  Although I don't know how good I'll do b/c I've never been :)

[Super Dave]

Personally, I just don't see this class going anywhere.  All those interesting bikes being mentioned were legal for the Sportsman classes too so where were they?

I agree.  

I think it's nice to have it mixed in where it doesn't take extra time out of the day, pretty much.  It at least might offer an alternative for those getting started or for those that that do AHRMA or WERA Vintage...if they knew.  

Too bad there isn't like a little contingency or maybe a little entry certificate for it.  At least make it something of an alternative.

[MZGirl]

Who's going to go to all the trouble and expense just to go out there for one race?  I ran Sportsman but now I only have one race and it's just not worth it.  I think this class will die and budget racing will be gone.   :(

That's exactly what I stated in my petition letter before the change.  The only reason I'm racing it is because I still have the bike, so it's easy to bring it along with the others.  If it was my only race bike (like it was last year) I would have been screwed.  I see this class dying soon.   :-/

[johnnyb99]

Personally, I just don't see this class going anywhere.  All those interesting bikes being mentioned were legal for the Sportsman classes too so where were they?  There just weren't that many bikes running when there were multiple races to enter so why should there be more now?  Who's going to go to all the trouble and expense just to go out there for one race?  I ran Sportsman but now I only have one race and it's just not worth it.  I think this class will die and budget racing will be gone.   :(

I don't know about the rest of the country but LWSPM is still kicking at loudon. Last year we had so many bikes we had to split the combined LWSS/LWSPM race every weekend. This year we are keeping the class and it has it's own race. I guess there are a lot of us broke budget racers up here, also the fact that these bikes are still a lot of fun up here. See y'all at Daytona... :D