Toyhaulers? Any 1/2 Ton owners out there using one

[Super Dave]

I'll chime in since I sell trailers...

First, ToyHaulers and such are not cargo trailers, generally.  They are RV trailers that are converted to cargo use.  So, their structure and componentry is quite different from a really good cargo trailer.  They may look nice, but the logic in how they are laid out sometimes leaves something to be desired for towing use.  

Compontentry...exterior aluminum, wall Studs, RV axles vs cargo axles, etc. etc.

Weight...  I use a 8.5x18 Pace American Trailer.  10k GVWR on the trailer...the trailer dry weighs 3650.  I'll abuse a 1/2 ton trailer.  Get a big truck with a diesel.  My E150 was doing 9MPG at its best, but generally 6 to 8.  My E350 super does 12 to 13 but has done 15...three tanks in a row.  And it's bigger than the trailer.

If you really want living quarters, cargo trailer manufactures make these kind of trailers too, but they are more structurally sound.  

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

First, ToyHaulers and such are not cargo trailers, generally.  They are RV trailers that are converted to cargo use.  So, their structure and componentry is quite different from a really good cargo trailer.  They may look nice, but the logic in how they are laid out sometimes leaves something to be desired for towing use.  

Compontentry...exterior aluminum, wall Studs, RV axles vs cargo axles, etc. etc.If you really want living quarters, cargo trailer manufactures make these kind of trailers too, but they are more structurally sound.  

     The frame structure was something that concerned me about the toy haulers too. I really like the profesional quality of the Pace trailers, they are built very well and have great fit and finish compared to a number of the other manufacturers. But on the other hand I wish they had a little bit more of the beeps, bells, and whistles like the toy haulers do. I figure the lower costs that I have seen for the same options in a toy hauler as compared to a cargo trailer is because you get what you pay for when it comes to quality. The car haulers skimp on the structure of the trailer as compared to the cargo trailer which will be a far sturdier trailer that will last.

     Thanks for turning my head back away from the toy haulers Dave, I was being drawn toward the dark side! :) Though I think I am probably going to stick with my V-nose car hauler for 1 more season. :-/

[Super Dave]

Have you checked out the Pace Explorers?  Basically, it's the Shadow model Auto Hauler with a set up inside.  Really, you can have anything done you want.  Just a matter of...$$

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

Have you checked out the Pace Explorers?  Basically, it's the Shadow model Auto Hauler with a set up inside.  Really, you can have anything done you want.  Just a matter of...$$

     I requested a bunch of info and price lists from Pace a few months ago and that was one of them. I have that flyer and had considered it, but then I got distracted by the Dark Side. That reminds me that another thing I didn't like about a number of the toy haulers as compared to the cargo based trailers was the high deck and overall heights of the toy hauler trailers. The ramps on a number of the toy haulers are really steep due to the deck height of the trailer being so tall which would be a real pain in the butt pushing a bike up those ramps.

[Super Dave]

Yeah, they are tall.  Pace still usually only about 20 to 21 inch deck height then there is a beaver tail too.  Makes life easy.  V-noses like Jeff's are a little different.  Usually they sit a bit higher.  Jeff, I don't think we spent the extra money on a beaver tail on yours did we (you...LOL!)?  But still, yours isn't as high as Jack's.

[Jeff]

Yeah, they are tall.  Pace still usually only about 20 to 21 inch deck height then there is a beaver tail too.  Makes life easy.  V-noses like Jeff's are a little different.  Usually they sit a bit higher.  Jeff, I don't think we spent the extra money on a beaver tail on yours did we (you...LOL!)?  But still, yours isn't as high as Jack's.

My hitch had to be 19 or 20" at the top of the ball (if that helps).

My trailer is the V-nose 7x22.5'.  The options I got was the 'convenience' package or whatever with the rear ramp door, stone guard and side door.  We upgraded the side door into an RV door for a mere $500 more  ;)  Mine is nowhere near as high or steep as Jack's.  

If you get a ramp too steep, you end up crushing the bottom of your plastics on the IN/OUT of the trailer...

The layout of my trailer?  Check it...

http://www.cbr600rr.com/pages/trailer.htm

Here's some more pics of the layout and it in USE early in the season:
http://www.cbr600f4.com/secondary_pages/2003_race_report1.htm

The only drawbacks with mine...  
1.  Tow vehicle was underpowered (resolving that this weekend)

2.  It took me a couple trips to learn how to load it correctly to get enough weight on the front

In the end, there is nothing I would do different.  I LOVE that trailer, and every last dime I've spent on it has been WELL worth it.

I put an AC unit on it this summer as well, which is a definite plus on the HOT days.

My pieces of wisdom on getting a trailer (do with it what you will).

1.  Get graph paper and map out every last inch of the trailer before you consider buying it.  You may find you're buying too much or too little trailer.  If you do NOTHING else here, do this...  You won't regret it a bit.

2.  Don't skimp on simple options like a ramp door and a side door.  They are invaluable

3.  Don't pay the trailer company to build out something you can do yourself (AC wiring, interior walls, etc)

4.  Make sure you have a big enough tow vehicle.

5.  Don't skimp on a cheap brake controller.  Losing your brake controller going through Chicago with a full load is NOT fun (ask me how I know).

6.  Support Dave...  He supports the rest of us  :D

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

My pieces of wisdom on getting a trailer (do with it what you will).

1.  Get graph paper and map out every last inch of the trailer before you consider buying it.  You may find you're buying too much or too little trailer.  If you do NOTHING else here, do this...  You won't regret it a bit.

2.  Don't skimp on simple options like a ramp door and a side door.  They are invaluable

3.  Don't pay the trailer company to build out something you can do yourself (AC wiring, interior walls, etc)

4.  Make sure you have a big enough tow vehicle.

5.  Don't skimp on a cheap brake controller.  Losing your brake controller going through Chicago with a full load is NOT fun (ask me how I know).

6.  Support Dave...  He supports the rest of us  :D

     I did the same thing with the graph paper when I laid out my trailer. I drew in all the electrical outlets, roof vents, air conditioner, roof hatch, doors, windows, ramps, etc. I then did something we do at work when we need to rearrange machines in a department. I cut out some pieces of cardboard to scale representing the apx. footprint of motorcycles, my generator, tool boxes, and storage containers. This makes it very easy to see just how things are probably going to fit in the trailer. I also then laid out where I would have the recessed E-Track in the floors and walls after I knew where everything was going to be in the trailer.

[Super Dave]

3.  Don't pay the trailer company to build out something you can do yourself (AC wiring, interior walls, etc)

4.  Make sure you have a big enough tow vehicle.

5.  Don't skimp on a cheap brake controller.  Losing your brake controller going through Chicago with a full load is NOT fun (ask me how I know).

6.  Support Dave...  He supports the rest of us  :D

Thanks...  Keeps me paying a few bills.

There are lots of options that are worth having the manufacturer do, actually.  Most of them I have a hard time finding a way to do it less expensive than they do.  I really like the Line-X floors, and what I charge to my customers seems to be about a third of what a Line-X place will do it for.  

Cheap brake controllers....yup, you do that once...once.

[Decreasing_Dave]

Ehhh..Hemmm

Alright, I know something about this.  I be experienced.

I towed a 1998 Fleetwood 24' toyhauler with an Expedition last year.  It was my friend's T/H that he let me borrow for race weekends.  With a wife and 2 year old, facilities come in handy.  It has a generator (in the front compartment-tongue load) so we could sleep at rest areas if need be.

My Expo has the Lincoln Navigator air ride suspension.  This helped out a lot as the trailer was WAY TOO heavy for a 1/2 ton truck.  I know what some of you want to say, but save it as I have upgraded my tow vehicle.  Anyway, the T/H loaded prolly weighed in at close to 9,500 lbs.  This T/H was killing my Expo.  The suspension handled it but I was worried about the running gear.  Not to mention I had 1 very scary moment when the trailer started whipping the Expo around.  The trailer brakes saved the day, I won't tow without them now.

I bought my own T/H middle of last year.  It's a 2000 Tahoe 21'.  Much more plush and lighter.  They seem the get lighter every year so try to buy as new as possible.  This wasn't nearly as taxing on the Expo.  It was working the 5.4 motor still, but I wasn't scared about the running gear like I was with the other one.  This T/H prolly weighs about 8,000 lbs loaded.  Still too heavy for a half ton.  My Expo is rated 7,900 lbs.

I tail load my T/H. Two reasons: 1. They build them tongue heavy 'cuz they never know what the consumer is going to put in them. and 2. This left ALL of the living quarters available should we need to camp for a few days.  We actually had 4 adults and a toddler camping in the T/H for a couple of days in Vegas with the racebike and gear in the back.  It wasn't even in the way.

Mileage :-/ :'(  The expo got something like 5 to 6 MPG.  We had to stop about every 130 to 150 miles for gas.  This made for a long day, since everytime you stop you prolly kill close to 20 min.  Also, It didn't really like to do the speed limit much.  Too much weight and  the trailer pushed a lot of air.  Keeping in mind our speed limits out here are 75 MPH on the freeway.   LONG TRIP was an understatment.

I have since bought an F-250 SuperDuty Diesel.  Can't believe the power.  Faster than my car.  Set the criuse with the T/H and go, 75 MPH and an average of 13 MPG.  Definitely the way to go....but seriously expensive.  It will pay for itself, as I typically put on a lot of miles, but the initial hit was killer.  Everytime I drive it I can't get the smile off my face though.

Oh yeah.  Cruise control is out with a half ton.  I had to feather the throttle to ensure that I gave it as much gas as possible without kicking it down into second gear and winding it out.  What a pain.  No relaxing on the way home.  Sometimes that was 12 hours AFTER a race weekend.  Sux bigtime.

I know what S.Dave is saying about cargo vs. RV, but with only 1 or even 2 bikes to haul plus gear, you don't really need a cargo type trailer.  These T/Hs are designed for much more than what we're hauling.

I hope I helped

D.Dave 8)

[Eric Kelcher]

I did a little write up on brake contollers a while back. Here is link to it. http://www.racemotorcycles.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?board=tips;action=display;num=1044306888

FYI the prices I listed were installed prices I was quoted while shopping so actual hardware prices will vary as the shops I am sure had different labor rates and some are more expensive than others to install; no one shop carried them all.

another thing for those with diesels or autos the Brake smart is coming out with a gauge option to get EGT, tran temp and maybe couple others boost, diff temps?

[lbk]

Stevie, nope won't be running the entire season. Pretty much just local races for the most part. When it is me, my wife, and the little guy though comfort is almost a neccessity.

Rob, just a bike possibly two. Tools, wheels and anything like that will get loaded either into the bed or the interior of the truck to place more weight forward in the vehicle.

We kind of have a different reason for looking at them. First of all NO toy haulers are not built like Cargo trailers. The frame is different, walls etc...

The reason we want a Toy Hauler is for dual purpopse. Yes we really like the idea of having it at the track but we also want to actually use it to go camping, and work remotely throughout the winter. We bought a popup and we'll be using that this year probably (Unless the toy hauler works out). Basically load the bike in the truck then tow the pop up. Gives you a nice comfortable place at the track. But is limiting on how much room you have left for anything else. So our idea is that if we can get the Toy Hauler before we upgrade the truck. Then yeah we are still limited on what we can bring just as we are now.

BUT after the truck upgrade then we will have plenty of room for the things I need at the track. Plus as I said we have a plan that we are working on trying to head south for 1 week a month during winter months. Work remotely which both my wife and I have the ability to do, and take the street bike so we can ride. So a lot of times the Toy Hauler may have minimal or possibly even no Toys when we are using it. As we will also take the little guy camping a lot too.

We just spent a week in the keys in the pop up and it was nice, just really realized how much a bathroom would be nice.

Also as for the water and other fluids, you don't really need them until you get to the track or close. We plan on only filling up as soon as we make our last stop so we are only hauling fluids for a short distance. Plus we won't ever fill up the tanks completely as you don't need that much if you can use showers and toilets most of the time at the track. The bathroom is more for immediate or overnight use.

Ok that was a bit long winded.

I think I'm in a similar situation as DecreasingDave where family comes with and their comfort plays an important role.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

     Just make sure to keep in mind that the stuff loaded in the very back of a toy hauler is what helps to take weight OFF of your tow vehicle (thru a leverage action over the axles on the trailer). It may be very possible that you could be legal on your trucks GVWR with stuff in the back of the trailer, then be overweight on your trucks GVWR when the trailer is empty. Most likely you wouldn't be pulled over anyways and have to deal with any of this, but if you did it would be Hell if you were over!