Competition Numbers!!!

[cstem]

[quote author=ex_#65_john_deere link
there is always going to be questions about why certain people get to stay am and some don't.
until the system is revised and structured properly, nothing is going to change.[/quote]

Sometimes a special exemption may be made in the interest of safety, i.e. real slow and knows it or returnign after many year lay off.  I am not sure about cases in your respective regions but if you believe it is a cherrypicker issue- talk to your race director- they can help to make a proper decision.  Remember nobody likes a cherry or nose picker.

[r6_philly]

and how does that come across as NOT complaining/whining...

I do believe someone on that list is fully capable of racing with and beating me and anyone in our 2003 classes, including each and every one of the national/regional champions. He also has told me at the track that I cannot compete with him, and he did get high placing at the ROC. Almost won in fact, a couple of times.

So now all of us have upgraded to Expert, and he is showing as a AM. personally I don't care, we all make our own decisions on what we want, but I think it is not fair to the AM's of next year to have to face him, who have, and will still call out all of the rookie experts of 2004.

top 5 finisher, coming from the back of the grid. Passing 30+ riders on the way. I don't see that as being a safety issue, as he has proved that he can infact deal with racing situations.

[bmfgsxr]

and how does that come across as NOT complaining/whining...

I do believe someone on that list is fully capable of racing with and beating me and anyone in our 2003 classes, including each and every one of the national/regional champions. He also has told me at the track that I cannot compete with him, and he did get high placing at the ROC. Almost won in fact, a couple of times.

So now all of us have upgraded to Expert, and he is showing as a AM. personally I don't care, we all make our own decisions on what we want, but I think it is not fair to the AM's of next year to have to face him, who have, and will still call out all of the rookie experts of 2004.

top 5 finisher, coming from the back of the grid. Passing 30+ riders on the way. I don't see that as being a safety issue, as he has proved that he can infact deal with racing situations.

who is this your talking about? if someone is that good and petetioned to stay am. that is just fucked up.

[r6_philly]

AM 125 RYAN PATTERSON

ROC:
3rd MWSB
3rd MWGP
5th GTU
2nd Sportbike
5th MWSS

I don't remember where he started, but I started on 3rd or 4th rows mainly, and he was a couple row behind me in most races.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

     Well another way to look at it is that with all the fast Amateurs making the natural move to Expert, he will most likely dominate all the Amateur races he enters. I would guess that if that is the case he will be forced to move up to Expert status sometime during the season. The thing that will really hurt him in this situation will be the fact that he only gets to bring half of his points he earns as an Amateur in '04 with him to the Expert ranks, so this will pretty much guarantee he won't get any individual class championships or overall championships in the Amateur or Expert ranks! All it takes is people complaining after several events to the race director about his dominance and speed to put him under the upgrade microscope (easily proven by looking at his lap times as compared to the fast Experts).

     Winning championships and top 10 numbers is about strategy and consistency, this situation will put him in a very vulnerable position as far as being able to win any type of championship in '04. To me that doesn't seem like a very wise move staying an Amateur just to dominate for several events.

[r6_philly]

you are right about the dominating part because I think everyone that finished top 5 in points or at the ROC are going EX, plus a few that finished top 10. I don't really see anyone who can compete with him from the current crop of AM's, maybe we will get a new face, or a couple of wera faces, but he is a sure-in...

on the force bump on, I don't really trust that happening. I have seen it happen, and see it not happen. And who is going to be complaining publicly without being labeled a whiner? I just feel the fairest all moves will be make this determination now before the season starts. He has proven his ability in my, and prbably most people's eyes.

interesting, here is a quote from Tiffiney from when she posted the bump list:

Well, K3, I can tell you that ticking me off right now is very much bad--ask Eric.  For anyone to insinuate that I might not put thought into petitions is ridiculous.  Those of you that know me know that.

As I have stated many times, I am not going to say "oh, you have x amount of points, you're bumped" and close the book.  I look at the performance index, where you raced, who you raced against, where you finished, and how many bikes were in the race.  For example, if you're riding and finishing up there with Dafan or Peanut, you must be doing pretty well.

As far as Daytona counting, it absolutely should.  If you are an amateur and do not race all season and come to Daytona, you will be on the back of the grid.  In Middleweight Superbike (or any other mainstream class), if you come from the back of a 50 bike field and take 5th, yes you SHOULD be an expert.  How could that not be fair?  It's not like Daytona is an easy track.  I have more respect for those of you that have been there than to say "Daytona's not that hard, it shouldn't count."

Also, if you're a Mid Atlantic racer, where grids are the biggest for the most part, and you finish in several top fives, the majority of the time it is the same senario as Daytona.  You've got the technical stuff down.

he obviously, without a glimer of doubt, to fit everything she has laid out in her post... so I just don't understand that one

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

You do have a good point there. Maybe he slipped thru the cracks?

[r6_philly]

it would be kind of hard, he got 5 plaques at the ROC  ::)

for the record, I don't have a problem with him petitioning, you know you make your own determinations. But I really bugged about CCS approving it. after I was used in the examples and all was said

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

it would be kind of hard, he got 5 plaques at the ROC  ::)

     I just noticed that those were ROC results you listed, I was thinking they were for one of your last races in your region, oops! That is strange that he is being allowed to remain Amateur, unless it was a misprint? Is this a for sure thing?

[r6_philly]

maybe it is a misprint, lets wait for some official confirmation... but I heard before I saw the list that he is going to stay AM. I was thinking the guy was just bs'ing, but then I saw the list.

[Jeff]

(misprint) exactly...

Don't get all worked up about it.  Hell, there are misprints all the time, and just because something is listed here doesn't mean it's gospel and final.

Getting all excited about it with no real fact (confirmation from CCS) does nothing for the situation.  Tiff & the CCS staff are put in a pretty hard spot by stuff like this.

I for one, enjoy having Tiffiney place information out such as this thread.  This is NOT something they are obligated to do, or have done in the past.

Just "wait & see", or if you're that interested/concerned about it, email the guy and email CCS for clarification.

My number was wrong.  Would moaning about it here do me any good?  No.  I called up Tiffiney and she was more than happy to straighten it out.

[motodirty]

Hey Dafan I'm pretty sure that if an amateur finished 5th or better in any class at the ROC that they automatically got moved to expert, and thats in one of the rulebooks.  So it must be a mistake.  As for moving someone up to expert halfway through the year.  Ive only seen it once and he was going faster then 98% of the experts at the time.  So they rarely ever move anyone up and by the way he isn't going to get faster by racing with the slow guys.  So who cares everyone will know he's a cherry picker.