2 ?? on 600rr

[Jeff]

Oh and as far as the other machines on the market that are supposed to be as accurate as a GMD Computrack , they are not or i would have one.

So if you don't mind, share the difference between your GMD machine and the Kyle-Gordis...

[collision_pro]

________________________________________________
What is a baseline number when you have no idea how close someone elses bike is to yours . You can have bikes set up same fork tube sticking out , same shock length and rear wheel in same position and same tires. They will not handle the same , every frame is different due to manufacturing tolerances. So for all you guys that set your bike up just like your pals , keep wondering why yours doesn't work right.

Oh and as far as the other machines on the market that are supposed to be as accurate as a GMD Computrack , they are not or i would have one.

So are you saying the factory lets out bent bikes? Also nobodys setups are the same because of different riders, not everyone likes the same thing.I went to a GMD seminar and I don't see them doing anything that you can't do with a measuring tape and a tram gauge.

[WebCrush]

oh geez, you've come on here to bash GMD too?

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

Am I the only one that got the joke?

Now we're in trouble, because Elaine's TZ dosen't have anything covering the magneto, should we add a cover?

Come to think of it, my CR doesn't NEED the left side cover, as the mag is dry.  I wounder if that would pass tech.   ;D ;D ;D

-z.

Only applies to 4 stroke machines.:D:D:D

[collision_pro]

oh geez, you've come on here to bash GMD too?

I'm everywhere! ;D I'm not bashing them, It's just my opinion.

[Jeff]

So are you saying the factory lets out bent bikes? Also nobodys setups are the same because of different riders, not everyone likes the same thing.I went to a GMD seminar and I don't see them doing anything that you can't do with a measuring tape and a tram gauge.

I'd say that they're not 'bent', they're just not measured perfect.  Putting a bike together, it'd be easy to have the frame twisted a few thousandths of a degree just by how the motor is torqued down.

I'd believe that a measurement/alignment system would be decent in getting a baseline and setting things up and correcting twists after an accident.  

As for measuring?  I don't believe you can come anywhere near as accurate with a tape/tram gauge as you will with a theodolite.

I'm just still waiting to hear what makes GMD so much better...

[fourandsix]

Actually we see new bikes out the the crate with mis-alignments and offsets. It's mass produced what did you expect. The average street rider might never feel it but some do. Go on the zrx12 site and look around , very common with those bikes. Just had to jig 2 new o4 r6's.As far as the difference between the different measuring machines , yes there is a difference.It would take far too long to explain it on here and why should i help them sort out whats wrong? GMD has a proven track record with bike set up. Why re invent the wheel ?Ask some of the local guys around here , Denning , Shallcross,Roeser,Janisch,Rosno,and on and on

[Super Dave]

I'm sold on Jim using his GMD on my bike.  

I've heard the numbers, but having delt with vintage bikes quite a bit in chassis set up, where would you like to start.

Let's say that every bike has their swingarm set at a 12 degree swingarm angle.  Big problems right off the bat...

My early model H1's have 17" swingarms, later set ups were 19", and now I have an aluminum one for it that is a little over 20.5".  The location of the swingarm pivot is at completely different heights.  

If the countershaft were at the exact same location in each chassis, the resulting anti-squat that is produced would be dramatically different.

Jim will have to elaborate here...  But I'll try to embellish a bit...

Certainly the GMD system has a window of opportunity for a chassis.  But given the varying locations of certain important pieces, certain "angles" and such are not universal.  

Back to Jim and http://4and6.com ...

Jim has done this for like...forever...probably twice forever....

So, Jim justs wants to be competitive; he's producing stuff to win against Miguel...right?  Really, who else do you know who has put a private bike on the top of the Box at an AMA National Championship Road Race?  Let alone the 600 race...potentially the hardest class.

So, when Jim had the opportunity to get into the GMD program...he was there, and he can apply his knowledge within that parameter.  Tools are only as good as the person using it...and as good at the person that can use it to their advantage.

Jim's decision to use the GMD system over everything else is just like making a decision between a straight rate spring and a rising rate spring...what's gonna make you're stuff faster on the track?

Oh, and my bike was bent too stock.  I fixed that with a few crashes...

 ;D

[davegsxrold929r]

damn i did not mean to start all this ...............


i know every bike is different ., but you have to start some place then tweek it to how you ride ... geeezzzzz   i did not think getting a simple answer would be so hard ., and fun at the same time......

jackasses the hole lot of you .....LOL ;)

[Super Dave]

LOL, the same to you.... :-*

Here's the trick...You've got a Honda.  I think after the F3, Honda really started to separate itself from racing reality.  The bikes are designed to be sporty and all, but the racing reality is quite a bit off.

You could start somewhere on the RR, or an F4, F4i, but because Honda made them to follow a particular sihluette, they don't bear any resemblance to the race bikes.  

You'd do fine on a reasonably prepared RR, etc...but it won't work anything like a reasonable production race bike.  

So, what does that mean?  The bike won't have the ground clearance, traction, braking weight transfer, and turning that you'll need to chase some other bikes out there.  That means that when you're riding at 95% of your ability, you might be using 98% of the traction available.  Mean while, someone else on an RR with it in the proper ball park, geometrically, will be riding doing the same lap times as you while not using up so much traction.  Or if you ride the bike, you can ride at 95%, go faster while still only using 98% of the traction that is now available.

Sure, there are styles, but there is a reasonable window that is availble to build upon...the RR is quite a bit different.

[stumpy]

 Coming from an owner of an RR I love it..Totally different bike than the f4,f4i,f3... Handles great! It feels like it weighs nothing because of the lower center of gravity, Need to get it dialed in though still to really see what it does, I've only raced it 2 weekends and it got me in the top 5 in every race I entered. Thumbs Up from this end.. ;)

StUmPy

[Super Dave]

Right but remember how different it was when you first got it?  Then some changes, more changes...still needs to be dialed in.

And with the proper information on geometry for shock lengths, fork heights with modified internals...  it would be that much easier to ride at the same pace, and a faster pace would be possible.  

But you can't have one without the other.  Lenthing the shock without the proper information on how that will affect trail...It's all just a compromise.  

Just saying that the swingarm needs to be 13 degrees and the trail at 90...that won't cut it.  Too dynamic.  That's why it's still easier for me, and I've ridden a few bikes, to start with a good GMD set up at 4&6.

That make sense?  It's a sales pitch, yeah, but if it sucked...I wouldn't be so enthused.  And you know I'm pretty straight forward.  I'll tell you one way or another.  But I can't make you do what I understand is right.

The option is to race as many races, go to as many tracks, spend as much money as I have, race as many DIFFERENT bikes as I have...and hope that you get it all.  But I still go to 4&6.  And it ain't cause I have money...I just know I have to have it to keep my old butt up front.  Makes my life easier.