So sue me....

[251am]

  Hey Dawn, who was/is Samuel Thompson?
  
  We have a HUGE debate in Madison Wi. right now as the freedom from religion folks are trying to keep children from singing Christmas, Christ, etc., in their Christmas choir programs. My question is; Where is the "division of church and state" thingy? Is it in the Constitution, Bill of Rights, or where?
        

[Dawn]

 Hey Dawn, who was/is Samuel Thompson?
  
  We have a HUGE debate in Madison Wi. right now as the freedom from religion folks are trying to keep children from singing Christmas, Christ, etc., in their Christmas choir programs. My question is; Where is the "division of church and state" thingy? Is it in the Constitution, Bill of Rights, or where?
        

This is a good read on the "separation of church and state"

http://www.noapathy.org/tracts/mythofseparation.html

I don't know Samuel Thompson, doing a search on the internet came up with some interesting results....

http://www.dangerouscitizen.com/Opinions/979.aspx  
Dawn   :)

[Lowe119]

I am athiest and I don't care if people pray, but I do remember being a kid and feeling VERY uncomfortable when REQUIRED school gatherings always had a local priest/preacher making us bow our heads in prayer. I finally told my principle how uncomfortable I was my Senior year and I got to sit in the office, by myself, for the whole service. I actually liked that better, because I didn't feel so awkward.
I'm sure people go to far to snuff out religion, but I really wished someone would've said something when I was in school (15-20 years ago).
Just my 2cents  :-/ :)

[Dawn]

Everyone is entitled to thier own beliefs.  That is the beauty of living in this great country of ours.  However, it seems that more and more the people who believe in God are being persecuted.  Heck even the money that you and I use every day says "In God We Trust."  

Of those who think this country was not formed by men of God need to go through their history books again.  The pilgrims first came to America fleeing religious persecution.  (Dang it, I'm not leaving.   ;))

For those who do not believe in God or even a higher being....  Answer me this. Take a look at the world around you, not what man built, but nature.  How can anyone say "it just happened"  "it's evolution."  If that's the case I could take all the parts to a watch, put them in a zip lock bag, shake it up, and poof! I have a working watch.  I don't think so.....  plus...  where did I get the parts from?

OK, I'm done now.

Dawn   ;)
 

[Lowe119]

I'm not going to get into a discussion about my beliefs in religion, because I know how heated and personal that can get.  ;) I have my theories and of course I think they are right.  :)

I was raised thinking that our country was founded on people escaping religious persecution. That we have a right to believe what we want. Just because our founding fathers were mostly Christian, I don't feel they should be telling us that their religion is the one to believe. By implementing their religious beliefs in government entities, they are doing that in a small scale.

These references to Baghdad, Jeruselem, and other countries that aren't as free and democratic as ours is comparing apples to oranges.

I know that your god is mentioned on our money, national anthem, pledge of allegiance, and other government things. That doesn't make it right for those of us who don't believe in one. I also don't have a solution, because I know some people need that in their life. I just want people to see both sides and honestly step into the shoes of us who don't believe in a god. We aren't bad people (even though we are sometimes made to feel like it).  ;)

I don't mean to offend - just share  ;)

[cuda]

Shaking a bag of watch parts, hmm.  I haven't heard that one before.  I assume as a Christian you think the Muslims are mistaken.  Well, you should anyway.  How does shaking a bag of watch parts, or any other anology for "look at the world, how did this happen" prove you over them, or any other religion for that matter?   Like Lowe, I too don't want to get too involved in this as people tend to get a bit miffed, but that one is a little weak.  I still don't care that you believe or pray or whatever, so long as my children or I do not have to.  

[Dawn]

How does shaking a bag of watch parts, or any other anology for "look at the world, how did this happen" prove you over them, or any other religion for that matter?    

I don't say that my religion is the correct one or the wrong one.  However, for those who say that they are an atheist (one who does not believe in God) I want to understand how they explain our existance.

Just courious because, personally, I don't understand it.

Dawn   :)

[phillip]

I don't say that my religion is the correct one or the wrong one.  However, for those who say that they are an atheist (one who does not believe in God) I want to understand how they explain our existance.
 

I can't help myself I know better than to get into this but, if we needed God for our existance how do you explain where God came from?

[cuda]

I don't say that my religion is the correct one or the wrong one.  However, for those who say that they are an atheist (one who does not believe in God) I want to understand how they explain our existance.

Just courious because, personally, I don't understand it.

Dawn   :)

Well, that is a tough question.  Unfortunately, it assumes that we must be able to explain our existance.  I think most atheists will say that just because we cannot prove every detail of our creation doesn't mean we have to go and make something up that has no logical foundation, and then fight wars with other people who also made something up (only something different) for centuries upon centuries blah, blah, blah.  I cannot answer for us all, but I think this is a commonly shared sentiment.  

On a good note, we should not really fight with others about our views until it directly causes us conflict, like my son getting fed Christianity in it's more aggressive manner.  Things like this will cause me to take very big steps, but otherwise I don't care what anyone else believes.  I don't begrudge them anything that makes them happier and more fullfilled.  And if they can see some truth in it, more power, rock on, etc.      

[cuda]

I don't say that my religion is the correct one or the wrong one.  However, for those who say that they are an atheist (one who does not believe in God) I want to understand how they explain our existance.

Just courious because, personally, I don't understand it.

P.S.  You sort of have to say your religion is the correct one.,don't you? Otherwise you don't believe it yourself.  That is not to say you look down on others with different views, but you must see them as wrong at least in their religious convictions.  

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

This is probably a massive oversimplification, but I'm a pretty simple guy.  I was raised Catholic, and I DO pray sometimes.  These days I pray when I'm really scared, sorrowful, thankful or happy.  I don't pray reflexively, like brushing my teeth.  As far as how I was taught what it takes to be a good Catholic, I'm totally going to hell.
Here's my take on relegion.  Even an athiest can appreciate this.  There is a good side and a bad side.  Call good God, Mohammed, Bhuda, social responsibility or a fear of the prison system.  There is a bad side.  Call it the devil, evil, human nature, the Kennedy conspiricy or whatever.
Good and bad.  You pick the team you want to play for, and then live your life accordingly.  Without this basic concept, we'd be no better than animals.  I call good God, as is my right.  Others have the right to their own beliefs.  
When I see "In God we trust" on money, it comforts me.  I love our Pledge of Allegance.  Our country WAS founded on these things, and it's absolutely STUPID to change them because they offend some people.  I love motorcycles.  Let's say that my love landed me a job in Japan.  I sure wouldn't walk around harping that their forms of religious expression were offending me.  The 200+ years of this country's tradition and national belief system SHOULD NOT go out the window because some people are offended by it.
Merry Christmas!  (No offense!)

[Lowe119]

For people to understand where athiests get their viewpoint, I think you need to start with a TRUE comprehension of time. It's been over 200 years since the Americas were discovered by Europeans. It's been over 2,000 years (or about 100 generations) since Christ. It was 5,000 years before Christ that we started seeing signs of farming and civilization. It was 5,000 more years before that, that we have the first fossils of homo sapians. Most people stop there when they are looking back. Most people have a vision of dinosaurs at that time.
There were a ton of different forms of humans that EACH lasted on this earth for 1 million years - Each - We've been here for 12,000. We have another 988,000 years before we even match our predecessors. Dinosaurs were something like 80 million years ago?? Earth has been here billions of years before that. I would easily believe that life can develop tremendously over that time.  
I can't explain where the original chemicals came from, nor would I expect a Christian to explain where God came from, but I think we are figuring out more and more every generation. Only a few hundred years ago we thought the world was flat.
So someone is wrong - science, carbon dating, archeologists, religion, etc.
Here I said I wouldn't get into it, but I'm just talking about time scales  ;) :-/ :)