Dunlop's tire woes

[WebCrush]

Take a look at this tire:



This MICHELIN is from Tom Fournier's Ducati.  It blistered and the came apart on the 3rd lap during the SuperTwins race at Daytona.  It cost him the race and he crashed mid way through turn 1.  One second earlier and that would have been a highspeed banking blowout.  The subsequent leader also had his Michelin chunk out on him crashing him as well.

I don't think any tire manuf. is going to handle the pressures of Daytona very well.  I mean, lets be realistic--do you know any other tracks where the REAR tire pressue is 36psi and they fill em with nitrogen to keep them cooler?  The only reason the Dunlop gets so much attention is that 90% of the SB riders (and almost ALL of the factory teams) are using them.  It comes down to statistics.  

How many Michelins were tested at Daytona?
How many Dunlops were tested at Daytona?

Quadrulpe the number of Michelins tested and I'm sure you'll see a blowout or two also.

Also, were the tires being tested by Michelin 'daytona' tires?  Dual compound?  I've heard a lot of complaints about the Michelin Daytona tire (wobbly and vibrations).

[r6_philly]

actually I eat my own words.

I was pitted right next to (the other side of the table)that ducati and had a good look at it. Funny you guys took pictures of it.

Front tire blow up was weird, because all the tires I have seen, rear is worse than front. There was something wrong wtih that tire, but maybe just THAT tire.

Still, some body answer me on the seam seperation and why dunlop don't care to listen about it?

that was the sole reason I stopped using dunlops by the way. and I influrence quite a few people, believe it or not.

[WebCrush]

you were on the other side?  damn, we prolly met and don't even know it.  Tom (Ducati rider) and I shared the same garage that weekend.  Were you the guy that kept borrowing my air compressor?

[r6_philly]

no, but we kept borrowing funnels and pump cuz we bought a drum of VP and forgot the pump haha

2 chinese guys, hard to forget  ;D

[harb990]

Not to mention it does happen in MotoGP - I think I remember Rossi's rear chunking last year during the 2002 race season and costing him a finish - don't remember which round, he noticed it and came into the pits before he had bigger problems.

[Super Dave]

Yes, it happens, tire failures.  Again, I use Michelins, and I have nothing bad to say about Dunlops.  As for that seam that opens up on Dunlops, that's been happening ever since I started racing, and using Dunlops at the time, in 1987.

Recognize that the bikes that have had serious failures were high HP bikes.  Livengood wasn't riding a factory bike, but it certainly was a well prepared bike ridden by a very good rider.  

Anyway, even a production based 1000cc bike produces some really serious loads now that we didn't see in 750's, and we won't see in 600's.  The weight above a GP bike has to be a factor in comparison.  These things are at the limit.  You've got to draw a line somewhere.

[thetireguy]

This MICHELIN is from Tom Fournier's Ducati.  It blistered and the came apart on the 3rd lap during the SuperTwins race at Daytona.

Hey Folks Tom Mason here aka: The Tire Guy for the Midwest region.  Mr Fournier was not using tires approved by Michelin for use at Daytona. Mr Founier was told NOT to use that tire and we (the Michelin garage) refused to mount the tires he bought with him to Daytona.  He has been using non Daytona rubber for a while and gotten away with it.

 Non Daytona tires are not recomended on any big bike and you can see from the photo what could happen.

Good news is the tire was holding air pressure!!!

[Super Dave]

Bingo, there usually is an explaination. 8)

[KevinC]

Maybe Daytona could be cancelled, and a real road race at an interesting track substituted?

If I wasn't so desparate to watch a motorcycle race by that time of year, I'd never watch Daytona anyway. It's a terrible track for a road race race, too much like watching Nascar.

[r6_philly]

As for that seam that opens up on Dunlops, that's been happening ever since I started racing, and using Dunlops at the time, in 1987.

And that is a good thing? in my eye that is a design flaw. would you still race a bike if the frame had a hairline crack but they keep telling you it wouldn't matter?

If that had happened to 1000's DOT tires designated for road use, I think Dunlop would have to address that issue don't you?

I know we had to trust our equipment, but is it really a good thing that we trust a tire with seam seperation.

again I am not saying that dunlops are bad tires. I am saying I would not patronize a company who does not fix what they could fix. Maybe the tires are exloding because an accepted design flaw is finally biting them? I don't expect to ever hear the truth because no third party is investigating.

Lets see that happen to a road tire. The gov would be all over it and dunlop would be forced to recall all tires made from the same facility.

Shame to think top level racers are not as important as joe public. Good company I say

[fourandsix]

I can't help myself and i have to reply , It is with great entertainment that i read the posts about the seam line opening up on the dunlops. I have used a large amount of Dunlops over the years , if i had to guess i would say maybe i have seen 5 tires that seperated a little bit and that was after the race .Actually the tire that won the 600 race at road america with todd riding was one with a seperation.I have never had any other major problems with a dunlop but then i never raced in a big bike class when the lap times were that fast at daytona or the bike had that much horsepower.
Someone also touched on a very valid point , How many tires did the riders try at the dunlop test versus the michelin test? You also have to remember that this was a test , the tires aren't neccessarily ever going to be a production tire.The reason all those factories use dunlops is that they want to win championships. Why did most all of the Factory teams in world Superbike back out? They don't think they can win on the Spec tire. We can speculate all we want what went wrong , but i'm sure Dunlop is working very hard to correct it.

[OmniGLH]

Shallcross (AM#43)  had 3 Dunlop rears fall apart on him at ROC this year on his GSX-R750.