Getting Started

[Super Dave]

Similarly is the theory behind variable rate springs which get progressively stiffer as they compress, they are generally used to make up for incorrect valving in the shim stack (though the manufacturer will try and get you to believe otherwise). Without doing any valving changes variable rate springs would be a decent middle ground to improved suspension performance.

Careful...rising rate springs are new to most people.  We used them years ago, then went out of vogue.  But Honda has used them in their race bikes for years.  

The spring carries the load of the weight of the bike, the rider...and the traction.  More traction, more load.  Certainly don't need a heavy spring when you're just leaning over.  That is a problem with a straight rate spring.  Then you've got to have dampening to over come the spring action at those loads.

As for my H1...I'll pass you on the outside with it.  Working to have it for Daytona in the spring.  Bring your H1 or TR750 or even GSXR down.

[StumpysWife]

Kevin, this is why you will never catch Stumpy.  

How is it that my poor little pumpkin Stumpy gets dragged into everything?   ;D


Trust me, he's not that hard to get!   ;)

Heather

[jmickle11]

How is it that my poor little pumpkin Stumpy gets dragged into everything?   ;D


Trust me, he's not that hard to get!   ;)

Heather

Sorry about that!  I just wanted to get some basic information!  Anyway, I'm overwhelmed with the responses!  

[lil_thorny]

How is it that my poor little pumpkin Stumpy gets dragged into everything?   ;D


Trust me, he's not that hard to get!   ;)

Heather

because he is so darn cute, that's why!!

30

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

Careful...rising rate springs are new to most people.  We used them years ago, then went out of vogue.  But Honda has used them in their race bikes for years.  

The spring carries the load of the weight of the bike, the rider...and the traction.  More traction, more load.  Certainly don't need a heavy spring when you're just leaning over.  That is a problem with a straight rate spring.  Then you've got to have dampening to over come the spring action at those loads.

As for my H1...I'll pass you on the outside with it.  Working to have it for Daytona in the spring.  Bring your H1 or TR750 or even GSXR down.

     Ooops! I didn't mean that as something pointed at you Dave, I forgot that you use that type of spring. I was just repeating what I was taught by Paul Thede (the originator / owner of Race Tech) at the seminar I mentioned before. He was respected enough as a suspension guru that the majority of the people at the seminar I attended were other manufacturers involved with suspension themselves (motorcycle, sprint cars, and even suspension technicians from the big 3 auto manufacturers!).

[speedster_1]

I disagree with not doing any trackdays....we don't know how experienced on a bike you are????  I suggest as many trackdays as possible....sure it's not a race buzz/experience but it's track time!  More track time=faster laps.  Skip the track days unless your really fast...or be a back marker.  If you really want to go for wood, get some track day time first.  If you're just in it for fun jump in, head first! ....after you get some suspension!!!!!

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

I disagree with not doing any trackdays....we don't know how experienced on a bike you are????  I suggest as many trackdays as possible....sure it's not a race buzz/experience but it's track time!  More track time=faster laps.  Skip the track days unless your really fast...or be a back marker.  If you really want to go for wood, get some track day time first.  If you're just in it for fun jump in, head first! ....after you get some suspension!!!!!

     Insanity can be described as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Unless you are trying productive new things at those track days that actually lower your times, your time on the track would be somewhat unproductive, except for learning the track ahead of time. For someone to go out on the track and just do laps without any guidence as to what to change in their riding style / set-up it would be very costly if you compared the results you achieved at multiple track days to what you would achieve at one of Dave's schools.

     I am just offering time / money saving advice based on my own experiences. When I took my licensing school back in '95 I was totally alone in my new adventure. No one to get advice from, no message board such as this, no freinds that had ever raced before, and a number of what I now know to be preventable set backs in my racing 'career' that could have been easily avoided had I been shown the correct way to do things. I took the longer route from point A to point B when I didn't need to, pride in thinking that you can do it all on your own will only hold you back. I made that mistake, so now I try and help others to not follow that ever so frustrating route.

     With previous motorcycle experience and race experience, jumping into road racing shouldn't be too much of a problem. Right now with minimal road bike experience you have a unique opportunity to learn the correct way to do things before you start developing deep seeded bad habits by riding on the street or even unguided track days. If you get out on the track during track days and keep practicing, what are you actually practicing having never road raced before? How are you going to know what you are doing right or wrong or if you are doing good or poorly?

[r6_philly]

the same can be said about racing then. If you don't get good advice/guidance, then racing is merely following people around and picking up on their habbits (good and bad) just because they are faster than you are. and you are more likely to pick up those habbits just because he is faster than you are. So you desperately try to get faster, and thinking I will try this and that, not knowing what is slowing him down... so good advice is very important to weed out the bad things from the good things, so you only learn thing that will help you.

So either way, track time is good for some aspects, but to advance further, and advance more efficiently, you need to seek out guidance, usually in the form of riding (not racing) schools. Or if you can have a mentor helping your riding, who knows what he is doing, and talking about.

[Super Dave]

Good points...

If track time was the way to getting faster, Nicky and everyone would be riding around at Misano or Suzuka all day long.  And the guys that do all those track days should be way faster than the racers that never hit the track until race day.

Racing is certainly different experience.  And during the experience, a rider will often slip past there regular mode of simple confidence and ability and try something agressive.  If it works, it can become part of your way of doing things.  That kind of "race track stress" can be a much bigger teacher than just riding around on a track day.

Certainly, I know of ways to helping people go faster.  I can make it easier, but often people think they can lean it all on their own.  

Cars and rising rate springs, yeah, but cars squat on acceleration too.  They also have to support a whole lot more traction...We've got, what, two business card size contact patches, and sometimes only one...

[smoke]

I think Dave said it the best " Race day/track stress" management is key.  This was my first year and I learned as I went and did make bobos as I went.

Things I learned this year
1. You can't do it buy your self.
2. Take a class or training from a school like daves or TPM.
3. getting some extra seat time helps.
4. Listen to others that know and weed out/ through the BS.
5. Ride within your limits as you learn. yes you can/do learn from a crash.  U figure out what u did wrong ( SR1 and 2 for me( choping the throttle and to tight on the bars)) those two item casuse so many other problems
6. Listen to SD. he will tell it like it is from is years of knowledge.

[Super_KC124]

As for my H1...I'll pass you on the outside with it.  Working to have it for Daytona in the spring.  Bring your H1 or TR750 or even GSXR down.

I'll be brining my 72 Waterbuffalo! You will then see the power and superior handling of the mighty GT750! ;D

[Fast4fun]

This is one of the best threads on suspension I have seen to date. I have a question about straight rate vs progressive shocks. What are the advantages/disadvantages of each?  I am two yrs into racing (mostly part time as expenses allow) and this is the year I redo my suspension on my '00 RC51. I like the class for its civility and veteran competitiveness together. Any suggestions would be very much appreciated. How much of an improvement should I expect? SD, I will be contacting you in the springtime to capitalize on my changes.