Everyone please help...NEW FUEL RULES!

[mdr14]

Then there is the burning problem.  If it catches fire, you can't see the flames.

I spoke with Kevin Elliot earlier in the year about the fuel rule.

If I remember correctly, he stated the fuel rule is in place for safety more than anything else.

The corner working crews are not equipped to deal with "invisible" fires.

[Super Dave]

I spoke with Kevin Elliot earlier in the year about the fuel rule.

If I remember correctly, he stated the fuel rule is in place for safety more than anything else.

The corner working crews are not equipped to deal with "invisible" fires.

Well, yeah, invisible fires, yes.  That has to do with methanol.

You also said that you talked to someone from CCS about whether one of the MR fuels was legal in CCS, and you were told yes.  

But that shows that there is NO UNDERSTANDING ABOUT WHAT THE RULES ACTUALLY SAY.  Or that there is no care, or that there is no knowledge.

I'm actually disappointed that I'm the only one that seems to understand this.  I'm a racer, and I learned a lot about fuel over many years.  Seems like there should be some people distributing stuff that should know.

It's a poor reflection on the whole motorcycle racing industry, period.

[Jeff]

The corner working crews are not equipped to deal with "invisible" fires.

Surely it would be noticeable once one of the cornerworkers caught on fire  :o

And to the quote "everybody cheats".

Well, I suppose small rule infractions are common i.e., swapping wheels, different brakes on an older bike, etc.  However, those who come out with 120+HP 600's in a supersport race are a different story.

Bottom line, if you need to cheat to beat me, that's sad...

[Super Dave]

And to the quote "everybody cheats".

Well, I suppose small rule infractions are common i.e., swapping wheels, different brakes on an older bike, etc.  However, those who come out with 120+HP 600's in a supersport race are a different story.

Bottom line, if you need to cheat to beat me, that's sad...

I agree, Jeff.  Some things are in the interest of saving money.

But why should a CBR600F3 make 114HP and appear to be in "supersport" trim?  If the power makes that much difference, then the rider sucks.  Is it more prevolent in the amateur classes?

And doesn't it just erode the whole racing thing anyway?  It's still about skill right?  

Here's one...

Ok, some guys don't like NASCAR, and that's fine.  But...does anyone think that there is one team that has a large HP advantage over another team?  We may bag on them because our grandma's that wear coke bottle glasses can drive a Ford Taurus, so any race car driver "can't be that good"...LOL.  But at least there is some equality there.  If there is any cheating, it's on the very fine gray lines of the rules, which is to be expected.  But blatant cheating...750 or bigger motors in smaller chassis.  What a joke.

[SE#39]

Nascar -- don't they require a spec Union 76 fuel?

[Super Dave]

NASCAR Winston Cup, yes, they have a spec fuel.  It is supplied to each team, but the entry fee for a Winston Cup race is in the tens of thousands of dollars also.

It is a leaded fuel usually spiked with a bit of methanol to keep those cars running cool for five hundred miles.

Other parts of the NASCAR series have different rules.

A team purchased Power Mist TO137 (120MON, 5% oxygen) from me for a NASCAR Busch race...they finished second.  It fell into their rules.

[Litespeed]

Methanol doesn't burn clear if you have enough Nitro in it.  And the type of nitro you want for mixing with gasoline is nitro-propane and not nitro-methane.  Nitro-methane will only mix correctly with methanol.  Finding race quality methanol is easy, head out to the local dirt oval track and ask the sprint car/midgets (cars not people) where they buy theres.  The best fuel you can get for a two stroke is found at Hobby shops world wide.  I prefer the 20% nitro but sometime will run the 30% and it's already got the oil mixed in it.   ;D

[Super Dave]

Do they know where to get good stuff?  Well, this is moot...and nitro in any form is pretty much prohibited...except in like Top Fuel stuff.

Most "good" methanol that is sold to racers is still only about 92% methanol.  The rest is contaminants...water, etc.  The water is why it's so terrible to components.

Medical grade methanol is available too.  Still, it has contaiminants.  

Guys burn down engines getting cheaper methanol.  

The very most pure racing methanol is available from Power Mist...  99.95% methanol.  Since more of the product IS methanol, it makes more power, and it doesn't destroy the engine.  Better consistency.  Summit Racing has used it for quite a long time.  That's one of the reasons they stay on top.

But you're gonna drop probably $5 a gallon.  You can buy stuff for $2 a gallon, but when you've got a $40,000 motor...  Actually, some guys never learn.

[Litespeed]

I will go ahead and ask my friends next time I see them where they get there methanolsince I remember seeing 99.5% on the drum it was in.  I'm fairly certain that they wouldn't be using substandard stuff in a $25k motor.  You sure are proud of your PowerMist....

[Super Dave]

The results speak for themselves.  

Oldest racing fuel company in the world.

Still family owned.  

They don't make gas for gas stations, so they always struggle to get the best raw materials, and they don't have something else to subsidise what they do.  

That's a big up hill battle for anyone.  They are the real American underdog.  In Busch racing, the stakes are pretty high.  Often, the guys winning and setting lap records...they may be sponsored by another fuel company with cash...but there is Power Mist in the fuel cell but different stickers on the car.  

[Howlin_Mad]

OK being new I am going directly to rule book to check all this out but are you guys serious that Pump Gas is illegal.

Marc

[Super Dave]

Yes.  Pump gas fits the specific gravity of gas, obviously.  

However, the dielectric parameters on the High Desert Engineering fuel analyzer that CCS is using will not allow pump gas to pass.  The parameters are +/-0.4.  Pump gas will probably be +1.3 to +3.5.  

That would make it illegal for racing in FUSA and CCS racing.  In fact, there is very little hope in a race track's fuel passing the test.  These parameters are very tight.

If you go to the web page...

http://www.team-visionsports.com/pages/953777/index.htm

...download the my Word document.  That should help you understand some of it.