Safety Gear - What do you recommend?

[MadXX]

Being new and all I am looking to start purchasing some gear over the next few months and would like to ask the community what they would recommend.  Budget is not a major concern for this stuff but I don't want to spend for the sake of spending.  I am looking for something that will not disintegrate during a get off and hopefully not need to be replaced after every fall.  I figure my skin, bones, and internal organs are worth a lot to me and I want to do my best to keep them intact.

I have a couple of specific questions but would take recommendations of other products as well.  Nothing is set in stone for me yet:

Leathers: I was looking at getting them custom cut by z-custom or Vanson (whichever I liked best in January)  Off the rack suits don't seem fit me well due to my long torso and shorter legs.

Back protector: Bohn vs. Knox.  Been discussed a lot but does one protect better than the other?  I know Knox uses 1-crash only armor while Bohn can be abused more than once.  I do like the kidney and shoulder blade protection on these models though.

Boots: I was looking at the SIDI vertebra but I am not sold on their durability, especially the ones with the metal ankle support.  I was also looking at the Alpinestars or others.  I have no idea for this category.

Gloves:  I am looking for something that will protect my wrists well and hold up to a crash.  I was looking Held but don't know how kangaroo compares to cowhide.  Anyone have experience with these?  I would also not like to be wearing boxing gloves (no feel)

Helmet: I have been sticking with Shoei since they fit my melon the best.  I was going to give Arai a try but havent found a shop that stocks enough or is willing to take the time to help me find the right one.

Thank you in advance for any help you can give.

[EM JAY]

  MadXX you are for sure on the right track being new, you must have someone giving you good advice so far.   Personally, Leathers-Spidi, but from what I have heard Vanson would be your best call.  Back Protector-Bohn, Boots-I have been wearing Prexport but am also looking to better my protection, Gloves-Joe Rocket, Helmet-Arai, find somone willing to help you with them, try on as many styles as you can.   Just what I have worn this year, my first also, have had only 2 get offs, one in the gravel, and one low side.  Didn't break anything, scratch anything or even have a headache.  

        My  .02  only......

[Dawn]

Paul has tested these products with good success...

Leathers - Vanson's

Back Protector - Fieldsheer

Gloves - Technique (Violator Pro's) excellent!

Boots - Alpinestars (he's buying another pair)

Helmet - HJC

Good Luck in your search.

Dawn   :)

[KBOlsen]

Leathers - VANSON, VANSON, VANSON! (Oh, by the way, you might want to try Vanson leathers).  Next-best would be Vanson.  Syed is almost as good, for less $.

Helmet - Arai/Shoei/Suomy are all excellent... buy the one that best fits the shape of your head.  Should be nice and snug.

Boots - I bought Teknic Violator II's but Sidi and Oxtar are both very good.

Gloves - Teknic Violator Pro's... Kangaroo is very durable and will give you better "feel".  Has lots of Kevlar and padding in the "impact" areas.

Back Protector - Bohn Pro-Racer (it's breathable... plus, you can throw it in your ice chest in between rounds).

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

Vanson & Suomey.  Suomy is the lightest by far, and I've personally crash tested one severely... :o

[unforgivenracing]

 ;DDont fall off the bike  ;D

As for what to bye, get whatever makes you feel safe.  Dont base everything on price[ whats your health worth to you] Spend what ever it takes to get what fits the best on you.  Shop around.  Stay away from catalogs until you know what your sizes are.  Different manufacturers make a difference in fit, so try on a few different brands on stuff for compair.  National motorcycle expo is a good place to start.  
Must haves include; Helmet, boots, gloves, leathers, spin protector.

[spyderchick]

Leathers: I was looking at getting them custom cut by z-custom or Vanson (whichever I liked best in January)  Off the rack suits don't seem fit me well due to my long torso and shorter legs.

Definitely get the Vanson's...BUT... do not wait until January. Get your order in ASAP as they can get backed up. Also, have a qualified seamstress do the measurements. If you are in the metro Milwaukee area or are willing to drive here I'll do the honors gratis.

Good luck getting started...welcome to the madness  ;D ;D ;D

[Nate R]

Alexa, MadXX IS in the area, so he's in luck!  :D  MadXX, I'd also say get teh Vansons if you can. I wish I could afford em.  :-/

[PJ]

Leathers: Vanson. Best I've used. American made and they hold up very well. Vanson repairs them if/when needed, offers trackside support at FUSA and AMA races, and they pay contingency at CCS ROC.

Back protector: I use the standard integrated Vanson back protector. It's nice not to have to worry about the extra hassle of a seperate one.

Boots: Alpinestars. Very good crash protection. I've been through three pair with muliple crashes.

Gloves: I've had good luck with AGV gloves.

Helmet: I've used (and crashed) Shoei, AGV and KBC. If you have a Shoei head, stick with Shoei.

One other item that I would recommend is Bohn armored shorts. They have hip, thigh and tailbone pads that supplement the protection you get from leathers.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

     I have heard good things about the Vanson suits also, but I personally have an AGV suit. Over the winter I bought my leathers new, directly from AGV, for 1/2 price due to them being the previous seasons model. I did have to exchange them though to get the correct fit, but only cost me ground shipping. I look for leathers with quality materials, ventilation, triple and/or quadrupel stitched seams, and good workmanship.

     I also purchased my boots from AGV and am very happy with them as well as my leathers. They fit well, have the quick lace system plus velcro, and screw on toe sliders.

     Gloves are Carbon Fiber knuckle armoured Tecknik's, with kevlar all over the back side of the glove and multiple layers of leather on palm in critical areas. Good feel and not too bulky.

     Helmet is an Aria RX7-RR4, very light weight and high tech. Has decent ventilation and fit great after break-in period. I crash tested my RX7-RR3 in turn 14 at Road America after high-siding in that turn during an NASB event. I used my head to start plowing rows in the gravel trap immediately following the impact with the track, though the helmet got all scratched up, it held up well.

     Weight of the helmet is a consideration when racing due to your neck having to support the extra wind rush, but the helmet still needs to be able to protect you.

[r6_philly]

well since I have crashed hard a lot lately :-[
I have converted all around me to the following products:

gloves: Icon TiMax - the thing is made of friggin titanium. I think when I go down, the road get scraped, not my gloves. Have done very well. It was a bit stiff when you get it, after a couple day of use, it gets better. One down side: with titanium studs on the palm, it scratch up your tank pretty easily.

Boots: Alpinestar Supertech. Like a ski boot, inside bootie and outside shell. Great ankle support, I can stand on the edge of one foot and the ankle won't budge. Also great all around protection, even if the outside shell wear through, you still have the inside bootie. A little tough to get on if you have huge calfs. other wise great. The titanium heel guard gets worn quickly from walking.

Helmet is more important to what fit better. If a good helmet does not fit well, your head will move inside of it, and it kinda make the protectiveness of the helmet a moot point.

Leathers: I am wearing 02 Wintex stock. It is great, but I can't really attest to that because as hard and fast as I have crashed, I have skin wounds. I don't know if anything would have helped. But I did not receive any skin wounds where the leather was not worn through.

[dwilson]

I bought a cheap bike just so I could afford good safety gear ::)

I use a HJC CL-14 helmet (fits perfectly), HJC suit with articulated back protector & plastic/dense foam armor on the important spots & an aero hump on the back.  Alpinestar kevlar gloves, Sidi Vertebra boots & a Simpson neck collar.  I've gone twice, once a hit-induced low side at 90mph resulting in a slide long enough to think about what I was doing  8)  The leathers blew a couple seams and wore 1 small hole, the boots got so hot I had burns on my foot, the plastic sliders melted and flowed a little & the screws blued...  Only 1 hole in them too, I patched the hole and they still work great.  I worry about neck injuries and therefore reccomend a neck collar, besides their real cheap ($30).

[lfg929]

Looks like Vanson is the winner with suits. I personally have a Teknic Violator suit. It works pretty well but tends to shred the leather in the shoulders and forearms pretty easily. Luckily for me the hard armor underneath has saved me from any injuries. That is one recommendation I would make though. Regardless of the suit you buy, make sure it has good quality armor in the shoulders, forearms, hips, and knees. If you go down and you do burn through the suit somehow then the armor will be another layer of protection. Plus, I have gone down hard a couple of times (100MPH tumble and a 60MPH high-side) and I feel the hard armor took a large part of the blows saving my body from a lot of the damage.

Buy a good helmet (doesn't have to be a $600 one, just a good one).

I currently use Sidi Race Verts for boots but have been looking at the Alpinestars Supertechs. If you want the best then Daytona's are the ones to get. The key is to look for as much ankle support as possible. I read a report that stated after the head your ankles were the next most likely spot for injuries in a MC crash.

I use the Knox back protector. I figure just have any back protector, it is better than nothing. Look for ones that distribute the blow across the entire protector to help minimize the force in a single location.

That leaves gloves. Held used to have some really, really good gloves. I think they are having some of the Asian countries do some of their gloves now and know that Helimot has stopped selling them because of quality concerns. That doesn't mean they aren't still a good glove. Like others that have already replied I use Teknic Violator Pros. They are $70 from newenough.com. Mine have been through 3 crashes this year and are still doing well. You can't beat them for the price and from the reports I have read on multiple boards (racers/street riders crashing in them) they seem to offer pretty good protection.

FYI, kangaroo palms in gloves is what you want. Kangaroo offers better abrasion resistance than cowhide. My Teknics have a thin kangaroo palm that you would think would explode on contact with pavement, but that isn't the case. The only downside I have seen with Kangaroo hide is that it tends to show wear and tear more quickly from water absorption (sweat). Make sure you take good care of your gloves by laying them flat, palms up, to dry out after a good day of use. I haven't started doing it yet but it might not be a bad idea to rub some leather oil in them as well to keep them from drying out and cracking. But, at $70 a pair I can afford to have a backup set or 2 of the Teknics so I don't worry much about it.

[Steviebee]

I've crashed a few times this year.

Back protector  "the Bohn"  (The white one with the breathable foam).  still looks great.  

I have the Alpine Stars SMX-Plus Boots and are not happy with them, basically they are torn up and need replacing after only running a dozen weekends.

I have an off the shelf Joe Rocket 2 peice (it fits me well, except for the knee area )  it has faird well, but not the best.  GET THE VANSON  if you can afford it.  remember to get fitted for your custom suit with your back protector !!

Helmets, one crash and you run the risk of destroying your helmet.  Once your helmet touches the pavement, its basically toast.  So dont get the rossi replica or whatever with all the graphics for 600 bucks.  I've had an Arai and a FM, i think i like the Arai better, but not by much (it hard to tell cause the aria was nice and broken in and fit well, but i think the FM will feel just as good after a while)

[StumpysWife]

I have the Alpine Stars SMX-Plus Boots and are not happy with them, basically they are torn up and need replacing after only running a dozen weekends.

Stumpy will agree with this statement--same boots and they did not hold up from general wear and tear.

He got Oxtars for next year--they look great quality and protection-wise, but we'll see, I guess.  

Heather

[Super Dave]

I have been testing Vanson suits for twelve years.  What I wear is what you can buy.  Often, some of the stuff that other manufacturers make, is not what they have their high dollar sponsored riders wear.  Vansons are heavier competition leather and they are stitched differently.  I've been knocked down, ran over, hit walls, etc...I seem to walk away all the time.  It isn't because I'm "super", but the leathers have to be my trick.

Since I wear a Vanson suit, I use the back protector that is in it.

Boots in general seem to be of poor quality an durability.  Certainly ain't made for walkin'.  Seems like Oxtar and Sidi have taken the lead in protection of the ankle.  Top of the list would have to be Daytona's.  $$$

Gloves...you've got to make sure that you have interior stitching.  Dafan, watch out for your TiMax...if they are the one's I'm thinking of, lots of exterior stitching.  Back when I started out, exterior stitched gloves were pretty common.  Easy to make.  But, when you touch your hand on the ground, the thread explodes and your skin is exposed.  Held gloves are really, good, but they don't fit my long fingers.  Admittely, Tecknik makes some really really really good gloves that are easy to get from your dealer through Parts Unlimited.  Fit is consistent and durability has been great.  A lot better than the Alpinestar gloves that I had when they sponsored me.  Suomy has some nice gloves too.  Hard to get, but I have a set and I love them.  Don't know if I can get them anymore.

Helmets...there are the common players...Arai and Shoei...and now Suomy.  I've worn Suomy helmets for three seasons now.  They are unique in that they are built to a different protection standard...BSI.  It's a British standard that takes into account a glancing blow and mulitiple impacts...that's what happens when our head skips along the pavement.  Snell and DOT standards are really more "car" oriented, but those were the only standards that were known at the time.  Additionally, BSI tests helmets from each lot, not just a handful a year.  If a helmet from the lot does not meet the standard, the lot is scrapped.

And back to helmets, Suomy supplies production helmets to their big dollar racers.  For a long period of time, I was sponsored by Bieffe.  As is common, I had pre production helmets that were different from what anyone could buy.  This is true for most manufacturers.

[StuartV666]

[The voice of The Contrarian:]

I would NOT buy Vansons. If I had a choice between Vanson for $500 and Syed for $1000, I'd spend the extra money on the Syed suit.

I've head 2 Syed suits and they've both been excellent. I'm still (occasionally) using the one I bought in '93 (yes, 1993). And it has been crash-tested several times and repaired once.

But, my reason for not liking Vanson is not an issue with their quality. It is with their philosophy. They don't support racers and racing. They just support their customers. That's a distinction that is important to me.

I cannot give specifics now as it has been several years and I don't remember them. What I do remember was another racer with not-Vanson leathers at a race where Vanson had their "racer" support tent doing repairs and stuff. He needed a repair. The Vanson people wouldn't do it. They were NOT too busy. He WAS willing to pay for it. They just wouldn't do it because his leathers weren't Vanson.

That attitude is SO against what I believe in, I am still (almost) unspeakably pissed. And it didn't even happen to me. We're talking about a guy's SAFETY here and they wouldn't help him, even though he was willing to pay for it. I don't give people/companies like that my business.

Syed, Syed, Syed. Top quality and inexpensive, too. I got another suit from then last year (mid-Summer '02). Custom design. Full armor. Some lettering. Custom fit (of course). Just under $1000, with shipping, as I recall. Sadly, that suit was completely cut off me at Barber's. :-(

- Stu

[StuartV666]

[More voice of The Contrarian:]

I had a Bohn Pro Racer back protector. I sold it. Why? Just after I got it, I was so proud of it, I was bragging on it to a friend of mine. This friend is a motorcycle land speed racer. He holds more world records at Bonneville than any other human. He looked at it and shut me down completely with one question. "Will it keep a footpeg out?"

Boom. There ya' go. End of party. The reality and importance of that question washed over me like a cold shower.

I believe the answer is no.

Since then I got a Kobe (I think that's the brand) from Marietta Motorsports at Daytona, and sold my Bohn for cheap. The Kobe has hard plastic overlapping plates down the spine. And good padding elsewhere. I'm not specifically pushing the Kobe. I am suggesting you seriously consider that question (will it keep a footpeg out?) as you look at each back protector that you are considering buying.

- Stu

[Super Dave]

[The voice of The Contrarian:]

I would NOT buy Vansons. If I had a choice between Vanson for $500 and Syed for $1000, I'd spend the extra money on the Syed suit.

But, my reason for not liking Vanson is not an issue with their quality. It is with their philosophy. They don't support racers and racing. They just support their customers. That's a distinction that is important to me.

I cannot give specifics now as it has been several years and I don't remember them. What I do remember was another racer with not-Vanson leathers at a race where Vanson had their "racer" support tent doing repairs and stuff. He needed a repair. The Vanson people wouldn't do it. They were NOT too busy. He WAS willing to pay for it. They just wouldn't do it because his leathers weren't Vanson.

- Stu

Stu, I guess I find it interesting that a company supports only the customers of their products.  

Vanson has provided that traveling service to Vanson owners off and on for some time.  Yes, it's not a service to racers, it's an exclusive service to Vanson owners.

Example.  In 2000 or so, Roger Lee Hayden finally got a contract from a leather manufacturer.  The Hayden's had worn Vanson's at one time.  You can bet that Roger Lee got a check with the contract and the leathers he would receive.  Anyway, the new leathers arrived at Daytona, and they were waaay too small.  Roger Lee comes to the Vanson people wanting help.  Yes, really it's too bad, but he should go to his leather people for help...Yes, they aren't there.  

Secondly, ask Alexa about leather repair.  It can be hard, and some leathers aren't really made to come apart and go together.  Vanson recognizes that in their production.  I still have the Vanson suit that I bought in 1994.  And I wore it again in 2001.  And then I lended it out for most of 2002 and 2003.

Vanson makes a good product.  They do support racing in general.  To say that they don't because Vanson won't fix another manufacturer's leathers when they don't even come to the track...It's almost like going to Denny's but asking them to make the eggs that you bring in...

[khanson]

Buy the best equipment money can buy.  If you try and save $400 on cheaper stuff you will regret in the ER when they are pulling asphalt out of you.

Leathers- I've worn Vanson since I started racing.  Yes they support racers because I was sponsored by them.  

I actually destroyed a suit after three 120mph crashes in them and a few other low sides (I ground through the butt area).  They went out of there way to replace the panels and lettering that needed to be replaced and turned them around in 1 1/2 weeks so I could have them for Brainerd.  Now that's service!

Gloves- Held is awesome.  I've tested others and Held's hold up to multiple crashes and very comfortable and give good feel.  

Boots-I've used Sidi for two years and like them.

Back protector-  I use a Bohn and have landed hard on it several times.  Definitely protects the shoulder blades which is important.

Helmet- Ive worn Shoei and switched to Arai and wore them for 10 years.  This year I wore Suomy and was very impressed and I like them better than Arai.  They are definitely lighter and built to a very high standard (BSI).  I whacked my head multiple times and destroyed 3 of them this year.  All performed excellent.  The helmet Ben Bostrom wears is same as anybody can grab off the shelf.  Other helmet manufactures make special helmets for their paid racers.

Just spend the money for really good equipment. You know the saying, "You can spend a little now or a lot later." :-*

[r6_philly]

Gloves...you've got to make sure that you have interior stitching.  Dafan, watch out for your TiMax...if they are the one's I'm thinking of, lots of exterior stitching.  Back when I started out, exterior stitched gloves were pretty common.  Easy to make.  But, when you touch your hand on the ground, the thread explodes and your skin is exposed.  

Dave, I think (not 100% sure) that my TiMax gloves have interior stitching on the seems along the edge of the palm. There are exterior stitches, but they are in between the titanium stuff and never touches ground. Also the glove is over made with many layers, so there aren't too many ways where you touch the ground there is not 2 layers of leathers or titanium between your hand and the pavement. 2 joints on each finger are titanium plated. There is an extra leather flap made of double layer leather on the back of the hand.

I have gone down pretty darn hard this year. for 3 times. The only injury to my hand is I broke my pinky. No skin wounds. And after 3 crashes you can hardly tell the glove has been down at all. I would stick with that glove.

[Super Dave]

There are exterior stitches, but they are in between the titanium stuff and never touches ground.

The one's that I saw, and I'm not sure if they are the same as yours, had exterior stitching on the fingers.

As for any metal on a glove...heat.  If it does slide for a long time, it can get hot and burn through leather, or skin.  Really the carbon/plastic armored ones might be better;  they're gonna shed some of the heat off in the form of worn down material.

[TZDeSioux]

Don't every buy AXO leather if you have a large penis. The groin area of the leathers will separate.

Sidi boots have been berry berry goot to me.

Suomy helmet is good. I destroyed one and little birdies were flying around my head for only about 30 seconds.

Alpinestar GP Pro gloves are good. One good crash on them and not a scratch. Although I did notice that there is a whole where my wedding band is from the friction.

[Super Dave]

Although I did notice that there is a whole where my wedding band is from the friction.

Yeah, those things are waaaay dangerous...in more ways that one...LOL!

Broke my left pinkey in 1996 or so at Daytona.  Had the bike saved, but I hit the ground first.  My fingers got pinched between the ground and the clip on.  The pressure transmitted through the ring gave me a spiral facture.  Came off after that.

[TZDeSioux]

SD,
Probably a good idea to take the band off when racing. I have this weird feeling that the next time I crash the pavement is going to grind down my gloves at that exact area and turn my band into a little ring blade and chop my finger off.  :-/ Scary cuz I won't be able to throw gang signs on street corners anymore.

[Super Dave]

LOL!

I used to work for a company that sold, serviced, and rented golf cars.  Lots of them are electric.  Once, the owner accidently got his finger too close to a + and - set of battery posts...36v of power through his finger.  Ballooned up real big very quickly.  BLEH!  It looked pretty sick... :-X

[Dawn]

Paul fell off his snowmobile and landed on the blacktop.  His hand hit the blacktop first.  His wedding ring split in two and pinched into his finger (kinda like a c-clip).  We had to use a needle nose plyers to bend it out.  VERY PAINFULL.

He doesn't wear his ring anymore.  (Then again neither do I  :o  except for on special occasions)

Dawn   :)

[r6_philly]

Alpinestar GP Pro gloves are good. One good crash on them and not a scratch. Although I did notice that there is a whole where my wedding band is from the friction.

A different story here, our endurance teamate crashed at T-7 uphill at VIR, relatively slow speed, but the knuckle protection was totally worn, and only half layer of leathers were left before his knuckles would be on the ground. I was going to get the GP Pro's, but after that, I decided not to

[MadXX]

Thanks everyone for the info.

Looks like I was somewhat close with some and off on others.  

I am getting the impression that Vansons are the leathers of choice 8)

Am going for the Bohn.  If I dont like it it'll be in the classifieds.  ;D

Still on the fence about the SIDI or Oxtar boots.  I kind of like them both and both have good reviews.  Daytona's are too rich for my blood at 2x the price.

I am gonna try the held gloves.  Seems that there is no consensus on this item.

I am also going to see if I can check out the arai and Suomy helmets along with the standard shoei.  I want a plain one anyway so I dont knock up my pretty street helmet.

Alexa I would like to take you up on that offer of measurements.  I was looking to remove a little more padding before getting measured but it would bug me to no end to be ready to go but have no leathers next year.  I will give you a call.

Thanks again everyone.  Feel free to keep the suggestions coming as I haven't slapped down the credit card yet.

[stickman]

I had some nice crashes this season (4 to be exact, 1 broken collar bone, 3 cracked ribs) and can't speak highly enough for my equipment. All of it did a great job in protecting me and they are holding up great.

Leathers: Kobe Carbon Stars. Very thick, heavy leather. Holding up great after lots of sliding and tumbling. Pays contingency. Will buy them again, can't beat the price of $699 either.

Boots: Alpinestar Super Tech. Very comfortable, great protection, great feel for the levers. Barely a scratch on them. Highly recommended. About $300, definitly will buy them again.

Gloves: Kobe. Comfortable, great protection. I love these gloves, about $135, will buy again.
 
Back protector: Bohn Pro Racer. Barely know it's there, seems to do the job. $160. Love them, recommend and will buy again.

Helmet: HJC AC-11. Never really hit my head with direct impact, just some scrape marks here and there. Not too thrilled with the fit, probably try something else next time. Only paid about $140 from helmetshop.com

[spyderchick]

I've head 2 Syed suits and they've both been excellent. I'm still (occasionally) using the one I bought in '93 (yes, 1993). And it has been crash-tested several times and repaired once.

Syed has a good price point, but they TIE & GLUE IN a majority of the armor, not an easy repair, especially the shoulder area. I wish they woukd either go to pockets, or a velcro system. Velcro would actually be easiest for them with all the customs they do.

I still wouldn't wear the back protector provided with all Vanson's. They come apart at the rivets, and the "turtle shell" comes undone. I've seen this on at least 70% of the Vanson suits that have come through here.