So I'm on my way home...

[xlr8tn]

exit the toll rd. and prepare to merge, when this guy runs right into the back of my brand new '03 R6.  :o
(only 300 miles on it)

Sure glad I was close to the line on the right hand side of the road, otherwise I would have been on his hood.  

Damage is minimal, think the left rear peg snapped and hit me in the leg.

Guess I'll have to race it now.

-brent

[r6_philly]

gee that sucks man, glad you not hurt.

gee that even sucks more that you going to be on a new bike next year...

I am picking one up next week, and I am not going to put 1 mile on the street. straight to racebike

You going ex?

[xlr8tn]

sure thing...EX next season.  Not sure how much I will run.  Mostly due to house-hunting.  How are you going to break-in your engine.  Much better to do that on the street and get it over the 1000 mile mark.

-brent

[smoke]

Sorry to hear.  Glad U are ok!!  congrats on the years events. But whast about the 98 gix parts?

If u want more house and land look up here in frederick MD. We just got our place up here about a week ago and its sweet.

[r6_philly]

I am going to take the bike out in all 3 groups at summit point track day this weekend and ride a various speeds and skip every other rotation. By the end of the day I should have about 200 miles. Then do it again the next year, try to get 5-600 miles out of the bike. Then maybe send the motor off and get it built. Then do another track day to break in the built motor. then I will be ready for daytona once more. :)

[Super Dave]

Break it in on the track.  Manufacturers want you to break it in slowly because they want you to get used to the feel of the bike.  You'll never see Rich Doan breaking in any Yosh bikes on the street.  You'll never get the ring seal with the way a manufacturer has you break it in.

[xlr8tn]

I am going to take the bike out in all 3 groups at summit point track day this weekend and ride a various speeds and skip every other rotation. By the end of the day I should have about 200 miles. Then do it again the next year, try to get 5-600 miles out of the bike. Then maybe send the motor off and get it built. Then do another track day to break in the built motor. then I will be ready for daytona once more. :)

Dafan, what kind of work would you have done on a brand new engine.  My GSXR was broken in as my street bike and has never been opened (engine).  What costs are you looking at and what would your expected hp gain be.  Are you getting the R6?

[Super Dave]

I'll chime in a bit...

I think a good supersport build costs probably between $1500 to $2000, plus parts.

I never really look for a dramatic HP gain, but a gain in acceleration.  

As an expert, I have shown up at Daytona with bikes with zero miles on them.  Did that in 2001 with my GSXR600.  We were flogging it on the dyno already when it had 28 miles on it.  Yes, it was competitive.  Didn't use a Power Commander on it, ever, really.

Yeah, you'll be a little more gentle the first two times out, but eventually, by the third session, I'm wide open.  Do some oil changes to get all the flakey material out.  Engines have been plateau honed for years, and with the new chrome bores, they are pretty much ready to go.  Metals don't have the strangeness of old metalurgy either.  

A bike broken in with "street methods" may never get enough heat in it to really seat the rings.  And once that's done, it won't seal up the same way.  

Make sense?

[sdiver68]

Ahhh the great break-in debate, debated in cycle and car forums ad nauseum for years, and in clubs before that.

However, it is generally agreed that 1000 miles is  much to long, and following the RPM limit advice may not allow the rings to seal.  I prefer a couple hundred miles, with several complete cool downs in between, and occasional runs up to redline after the first hundred.  Fresh oil change and voila, ready to go.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

     I bought my '96 GSXR 750 new, rode it 100 miles on the street, got re-called for the pistons lightly hitting the head. The pistons, rings, and head gastket were all replaced by Suzuki, the bike was then taken directly into racing. Raced it about 6000 miles without any mechanical problems and the bike was really fast the entire time. Only modifications were a full exhaust, carb kit, and air filter.

     My '99 GSXR 600 was taken directly to the track without any street miles on it. Same modifications as 750.

     My '02 GSXR 750 has been riden on the street for this season, but has never been on the track yet. Modifications include full exhaust, Power commander, air filter.

     I personally have never had any internal performance modifications done on any of my bikes, yet on my '96 GSXR 750 I rarely ever had someone that could out accelerate me on it.

[r6_philly]

Dave is right, a supersport job costs around 1500-2000, don't expect to see big HP gains, but the accelaration, or time-to-power, is grealy improved. that is what I am looking at. I don't want a bike built to the teeth, because I don't want to have to freshen it 4 times a year. I want it to go through 1 year, then I have the winter to play with it.

I guess my planned break-in method kinda fit everyone's thought. Ride it progressively faster on the track, let it cool down completely every hour or so, then wide open by the second day.

Then its parts and mods time.

I happen to have a question that you guys may be able to answer:

Is total loss bikes allowed in FUSA Sportbike?

I am going to read the rule book now, but just don't want to misunderstand it.

[Super Dave]

Yeah, I believe so.  

Trick with the R6 is the weight.  On a light tank, I'm down pretty close to the bottom for weight.

As for engine building...

4&6 did my R6 this year before I ever did anything to it.  Never even started it until they had went through the motor and put it together.

If you're gonna do it, now is the time to do it.  Everyone's looking for work.  No rush.  Probably a good deal to be had.

[r6_philly]

Are you suggesting I get the motorwork done before I ride it? I was planning to ride it abit, then get the work done. Kinda tempting to get a new bike and not able to ride in right away  ;D

[xlr8tn]

Dafan, what bike you racing next year?  If it's an R6, I have no clue about what works well with this bike.  Super_Dave, what are my options in getting my 03 R6 race ready (exhaust? power commander?)  My old gsxr just needed gas, jet kit, and suspension.  How good is the stock suspension on an R6?
What kind of HP are we looking at stock and what is achievable with tuning and race fuel?

thanks,
-brent

[xlr8tn]

Sorry to hear.  Glad U are ok!!  congrats on the years events. But whast about the 98 gix parts?

If u want more house and land look up here in frederick MD. We just got our place up here about a week ago and its sweet.

Little bit farther out than I'd like.  Little on the market at the moment in the areas we are looking.  With winter approaching, debating whether I want to wait until Spring to move.

-brent

[smoke]

Dafan, what bike you racing next year?  If it's an R6, I have no clue about what works well with this bike.  Super_Dave, what are my options in getting my 03 R6 race ready (exhaust? power commander?)  My old gsxr just needed gas, jet kit, and suspension.  How good is the stock suspension on an R6?
What kind of HP are we looking at stock and what is achievable with tuning and race fuel?

thanks,
-brent

Brent

Danny #201 has an 03 R6 and raced it this year but only made one mod all year ( full Hindel sys).
He has done the following to get ready fro next year

PC set up by CAD
forks ( springs and seals) CAD
Penksi rear

I can give u his number if u want it.

Mel

[Super Dave]

Super_Dave, what are my options in getting my 03 R6 race ready (exhaust? power commander?)  My old gsxr just needed gas, jet kit, and suspension.  How good is the stock suspension on an R6?
What kind of HP are we looking at stock and what is achievable with tuning and race fuel?

Still using the stock head pipe with a Micron slip on, no Power Commander.  They really aren't reliable enough for me.  Might be some new stuff coming out this winter, so I'll wait a bit.  Might be a way within the stock Yamaha system to change the fuel, but I don't exactly know how yet.

Stock shocks kind of blow.  It won't be long enough.  Spent the money there.

Forks.  Ran them through August with stock internals with Hyperpro springs only up front.  Was pretty harsh at Heartland Park Topeka...the surface there was UNBELIEVEIBLY rough.  Had 4&6 do the internals after that.  Made the dampening better after that across the board.

HP?  Don't know.  Never had time to put it on a Dyno.  Seemed competitive.  Put it in the top ten in FUSA, and it was running way too hot and I had to back out of the power to keep it cool.  

[dwilson]

Why not see if you can get the insurance company to total it, then buy it back cheap for track use???

The engine break in debate...
I consider myself fourth genaration of experts in ancient technology  8) and I'm with Super_Dave.  Reminds me of my Russian Ural sidecar bike I had.  Up until 2000 they didn't hone cylinders.  You had to ride at slow (35mph) varying speeds for 1K miles to seat the rings.  I almost tore the jugs off mine to hone them myself.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

HP?  Don't know.  Never had time to put it on a Dyno.  Seemed competitive.  Put it in the top ten in FUSA, and it was running way too hot and I had to back out of the power to keep it cool.

     Dave, might I interest you in some Evans NPG?  ;D LOL  Just kidding, I know you think the stuff is over rated/priced, but I haven't run a fan all year and the stuff kept my bike running great even at MAM when it was 100*.

[r6_philly]

its not legal in WERA isnt it? I was going to change from water, but want to remain legal everywhere

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

its not legal in WERA isnt it? I was going to change from water, but want to remain legal everywhere

     Don't know WERA's rules personally, you'll have to ask Mongo! LOL

     NPG is the stuff for bikes (not NPG+), it's Propylene Glycol not Ethylene Glycol, and is legal for CCS.

     The stuff is AWESOME! Go to http://evanscooling.com/index2.html and read up on the theory as to why the coolant works so well. The stuff doesn't boil till something like 370* and it transfers heat much more effectively. Costs like $25 per/gal., but well worth the 1 time investment!

[r6_philly]

ya I liked what I read, and was thinking about it. then I just poured water into my bike and never thought twice :D

what happened to engine ice? I remember all that marketing in 01, did they go away?

[Super Dave]

Evans?  Sounds like the FI system on the R6 is a bit on the lean side, as I'm understanding it now.  Got some info from the guys at Factory at VIR.  Jim at 4&6 agreed.

Now, you have a Power Stroke in your truck right, Mike?  That's where it belongs!  Drain the coolant and replace the thermostat on a Power Stroke with a 203* thermostat and drill a hole in the cooling system cap.  It brings up the engine temperature about ten degrees (203* t-stat opens at 185).  This is a better operating temperature for the Power Strokes.  Makes 'em a little quieter and a little more efficent.  Additionally, you have no pressure on the cooling system...never blow a hose.  And you won't have to check and add the SCA additive to your coolant either.  Going to do that for my bus pretty soon.

I don't think Evans is legal in WERA.

Engine Ice?  It's Propylene Glycol with water already added.  

The only thing that scares me about Evans is that it carrys away more heat.  So, sometimes the coolant temperature will read higher than what it would with water.  Water won't carry away as much heat, get it?  So, if the coolant has more heat and you have a water cooled oil cooler, ala most 600's, you can really put the heat into the oil which I think goes to the main bearings first?

Evans is illegal in Winston Cup.  They found that it offered too much of an aerodynamic advantage because teams didn't really have to run so much air past the radiator to keep the engine in a safe zone of operation.

WERA doesn't allow it because it's still like oil on a track if it gets on the pavement.

[xlr8tn]

ya I liked what I read, and was thinking about it. then I just poured water into my bike and never thought twice :D

what happened to engine ice? I remember all that marketing in 01, did they go away?

I used Engine Ice in 02 and 03.  I assume it's still around.

[xlr8tn]

Why not see if you can get the insurance company to total it, then buy it back cheap for track use???

The engine break in debate...
I consider myself fourth genaration of experts in ancient technology  8) and I'm with Super_Dave.  Reminds me of my Russian Ural sidecar bike I had.  Up until 2000 they didn't hone cylinders.  You had to ride at slow (35mph) varying speeds for 1K miles to seat the rings.  I almost tore the jugs off mine to hone them myself.

Only if I would have just dropped the damn thing, but being a good racer and doing everything in my power to not loose it, managed to keep it upright and damage is little.  So much for my showroom bike.

-brent

[r6_philly]

I would have jumped off the bike, then took a chisel to the frame after I get home, just to scrape off some paint... hahaha

Well I guess you will be racing that R6 next year. So what you going to ride on the street? I am converting my 99 back to street.

[xlr8tn]

may not have to.  I took the bike to the shop where i bought it.  Swingarm and frame damage present.  Anyone know if 'G ei co' allows you to buy back a totaled bike?  Better question is, how do you bring this up in the conversation and how much should I expect to buy it back from them?

-brent

[r6_philly]

When the adjustor comes out to go over the estimate with you, if they are going to total it, just ask the question. They usually let  you buy back for a percentage of the book value, usually not much at all. Depending on your company. Just ask the adjustor.

[clutch]

How about this Liquid Performance Racing Antifreeze.  Legal for all AMA events and ingredients are Propylene glycol, Deionized water, corrosion inhibitors.  Boiling point of 284 degrees F and freezing point of -30 F.  May be harmful if swallowed :)