National/ Pro Riders Stealing the Ex Championsh

[GAMEDIC]

The sad truth is that CCS or WERA for that matter doesn't care about the average racer just how many paid entries they get, .

Seems to be true... i mean do you think they would let Smoltz come play ball for a local team? ..no way it would happen same point here

[Peanut]

Back in '01 when I started doing trackdays this was the topic on WERA's board.  I see it this way:

yellow plates=AM
club level, national, and ama white plates=pro.

Every AMA, FUSA, and WERA National riderss ARE first experts.  If a regional EX qualifies for an AMA race, should they now not go back and race with other regional pros?  Why not?  If you have gotten your white plates you are a pro, maybe a pro with another job, ;) but your races are at pro level. You are the same as all other EX's including AMA & National guys.  Period.  

Regional Championships should be emphasized more, I agree, but if the big boys show up and clean house at a national, well so be it.  If you could, would you have gone and raced at Willow and tried to take their "pro" money this past weeekend?  Of course you would.  Why can't they do the same?

Time to stop wining.  I know Benji would agree with me, why not learn to ride w/them and maybe beat them!?  Want no national guys, go back and be a AM. ;)

[Super Dave]

That doesn't seem fair. I thought WERA/CCS was amatuer racing. Isn't AMA classified as Pro?

I think CCS/WERA/MRA/CRA, etc is classified as Pro/Am racing.

[GregR6]

How about at the next level, which would be AMA. If you are good enough to qualify for AMA, you have moved beyond club racer status.

How untrue is that? Front running amateurs (let alone experts) can qualify at many AMA races. Back of the pack? Yes, but nonetheless qualify.

DAFAN, I kinda like your idea. hmm...
Peanut, well said.

[sdiver68]

When I talk to people who know nothing about racing, I describe it as semi-pro...I am not nearly good enough to make a living at it but some of the top guys do.  Another way I say it is equivalent to Class A baseball, with AA beng FUSA, AAA being AMA and Pros being the world series like SB and of course MotoGP.

Anyway, true factory guys (defined as receiving significant support from the factory or their American affiliate) should not win these races, imho.  Everyone else should be eligible...some of them need the paycheck and they should get paid for being great at what they do.

[lil_thorny]

i do agree nut, if you want to win you have to beat the fast guys. if they have a CCS liscense, they can race. However, I personally wanted to see Janisch
win the sportbike race. so i was bias. My cousin once
got mad at Shawn Conrad for coming to Blackhwk and banging into him and others....but since then,
i've learned that that is how you get up front. those who stick it in there rather then standing it up, get to the checker'd much faster. I myself plan on winning
against those guys next year....why settle? you can always brake a heartbeat later, or get just a little better drive coming out of the corners. you found that out yourself this weekend didn't you? ;)
I'm not here to argue with anyone, we are certainly at a disadvantage to guys with even minimal factory support......but it is up to us to outride them. So we
must to what we must do. Ride the wheels off of it!!!
Benj. # 30

[Mongo]

So we should just not allow the "pros" to finish - cool.  Now tell me which riders are pro, which ones are pro/am, which exactly are privateers and are they really pro?

Jimmy - I'd like you to explain to Evelyne to her face that her only concern in running WERA is the paid entries.  I thought you knew her better than that, evidently not.

Peanut - amen!

Once you go expert and run the classes where the OEM's have decent money all bets are off.  Personally I'd prefer the days of no contingency and people actually raicng because they like the sport but that doesn't seem possible anymore.

Sdiver - what about the fast guys that have factory level support but from another sponsor?  One of the biggest complaints people will have at our stuff is the Vesrah guys - yet they are not a factory team, they only ran a couple of AMA races for fun, and they've run WERA all year long - focusing on the National stuff but running club races when they could.  So where do they fit in to the no-pros ruling?

[GAMEDIC]

I don't think it is an issue of the support..that doesn't always matter we have a team i will not mention the name ..but they seem to have LOADS of money but do not do very well .. not sure how i would explain it but i would say that someone like Webber i would not have a problem with i mean yes he now has an AMA lic. but i would not say he was a Pro but someone like Rapp or LIvengood or Yates would be thoguht of as a pro and someone like that i think would not be right to allow them to race at club level now how do you think people would feel if Yates were to show up on a suzuki weekend and take all the money?

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

About the same way they'd feel when Team Vesrah shows up at a club race with an 18-wheeler full of bikes to poach all the Suzuki money.  Of course, I've seen some of our best experts beat Mark Junge at the local tight technical tracks.  At Road America or Daytona, the big money bikes just leave.
I worked for Mark Junge for a while.  He has a huge shop, a dyno room, six free motorcycles, free tires, ect.  Racing is his job, and he puts 5, 6, or 7 twelve hour days a week into his program.  He's earned his success and position, but wouldn't you call him a pro?  It kinda sux having to compete against guys like that at a club race.  Heck, the guy burns up more money in free tires in one weekend than I spend in a weekend all told!
Personally, I'm not good enough to beat guys like Junge, Higbee, Rapp, ect. (Even if we traded bikes!)  But some of our guys are.  It sucks to see them having to race these pros for the CCS National Championship while being at such a disadvantage equipment-wise.

[SliderPhoto]

And what's the point of proving you're the fastest of the slow guys?

Because you're racing a national "club" event, not an AMA event. If you wanted to compete with AMA level racers, that's where you'dd be, at an AMA event.

Where do you draw that line?

Top ten finish in a similar AMA class in the last year? Two years?

[GAMEDIC]

I owuld have to agree to that...maybe that would be a good place to draw the line.. if you are racing as a full time job and are getting paid to do so..then you should not be able to race club level ...

[r6_philly]

I don't really have a problem with pros enter club events. By the rule book, anyone who has qualified experience can get an Expert license and compete. Including the pros.

I do have a problem with people (pro or not) show up and win one race for whatever reason, are named national champion. It makes the champion more hollow than what it already is.

Thats why I proposed a system where it takes equal accounts of regular season participation and national championship race. So only someone with regular participation can win a championship at the end of the year.

Mongo, we are not the same as Olympics. Olympics is widely recognized as the pinnacle of prospective sports. CCS/WERA/Whoever is just a series, there are always others to enter into which is just as prestigous, if not more.

CCS limit and require membership to comptete. The glory for a postseason should only belong to the regular participants. You wouldn't see a mid-level NCAA div I team show up and win the div III championship, because thats not their seires. If a pro wish to compete in CCS regional events and win a championship as a result, good for him, but to show up at Daytona and win, thats not cool.

So I came up with the idea of half regular season, half ROC. and to be fair, regular season should be taken as an average to account for regions that have more/less events.

Or you could assign points to the final regular season standings as if it is a race, and then add the points to ROC finishing points, and come up with a winner. I think that would be more fair, and weed out the ROC only entrants.

Finally on pro at club events. we have to dig into why they come and compete. If they like to race, then why stop them? If they are looking for a payday, then something has to be done. If you receive support from a manufacturer, you should not be able to get rewards/purses/contingency. If my company run a sweepstake, I wouldn't be eligible to win, would I?

Purses? Its a judgement call. What if I have lots lots of $$ and I just buy the best equipment. Would you call me pro? would it be fair if I show up and win purses? It happens, even in amatuer. I think personally I wouldn't take the money if that was the case. Supprot or not, if they qualify for that class, they should win the money. What if I have a spare bike and you don't, what if I get money from your family and you don't, there is no line to be drawn.

so I just like to see the national championship goes to deserving, participating racers. Otherwise, let em race