what do you think....

[fourandsix]

I'll say it again. If 6 or 7 riders showed up to race, the sport would be over as far as major coverage is concerned. It would be like a pro sports team playing the same opponent every game. At least with NAPCAR you have 30 or so drivers, each with a chance to win. The rules make it that way. Motorcycle racing rules don't allow for anyone but the factory riders to have a chance. NASCAR didn't get where is is today by allowing the same 5 guys to dominate every week. Just my opinion. ;)

The rules have nothing to do with it , should the NBA mandate that 7' guys play with one hand tied behind their back to help a short guy? If you can't afford to run at the front don't blame AMA Pro rules , thats why CCS,WERA and the rest of the local groups exsist.You can chase the OEM contingency money and make over $70k a year.Should NASCAR change the rules so anyone can compete in the family sedan? AMA Pro Racing is what it is , if a person desires to be a front runner it is possible by spending the right amount of money , but you still have to have the rider talent. I can count on one hand the number of riders from this area that were able to run in the top ten in a Pro event. Quit deluding yourself that if you had all the money you could compete in a AMA Pro race. Be happy where you are now and enjoy it while you can. (I am not trying to single you out as an individual )

[Baltobuell]

 Ok, now I'm thinking maybe the factory format needs adjustment. Like Yamaha money, only skip the factory riders altogether. If they took Madlins salary and the cost of the team and their whole program, divided that by however many races their are and divided it up for the top 15 Suzukis, Honda, Kawasaki doing the same. Then the better man win and nodody would starve in an attempt. Sure sombody would have a trick gizmo and somebody would gripe, but it would even things up a bit and reward the fastest team. R&D would still continue only with more riders to choose from. Purses would be worth trying to get. Ain't gonna happen, but it's a thought.

[Super_KC124]

The rules have nothing to do with it , should the NBA mandate that 7' guys play with one hand tied behind their back to help a short guy? If you can't afford to run at the front don't blame AMA Pro rules , thats why CCS,WERA and the rest of the local groups exsist.You can chase the OEM contingency money and make over $70k a year.Should NASCAR change the rules so anyone can compete in the family sedan? AMA Pro Racing is what it is , if a person desires to be a front runner it is possible by spending the right amount of money , but you still have to have the rider talent. I can count on one hand the number of riders from this area that were able to run in the top ten in a Pro event. Quit deluding yourself that if you had all the money you could compete in a AMA Pro race. Be happy where you are now and enjoy it while you can. (I am not trying to single you out as an individual )

 You have soooo misread my post. First of all, sport teams pick from the best talent available. Period. It has nothing to do with having special one off equipment like the factory riders. Why do you think the privateers can't win? It's because, no matter how much money they have, they can't have what the factory teams get. Deluding myself? I said nothing about buying a win.???   A privateer finishing in the top ten of an AMA race doesn't allways finish on the lead lap. I wouldn't call that being competitive. ::) Look at World Supersport last year. There were 10 to 15 bikes battling out for most of the race. (I don't know how it was this year cause NASCAR TV... er.... I mean SPEED didn't cover many Supersport events >:()  NASCAR works really hard to make the teams even. It shows in the number of drivers in a position to win on the last few laps. What's wrong with that? What i'm saying, is it sucks to have to pick from 5 riders to root for. It doesn't have to be that way. Flame on. ;D

[Super Dave]

Where I see the problem with AMA rules is in the things that you can't buy IF you had the money.

Forks and special swingarms in addition to FI systems.  Those are things that could make a difference to a team.

Jim, I don't think anyone is necessarily saying that they could be competitive with the right parts, but I think it's relatively clear that there is such a technical difference between the factory and privateer teams.  It isn't one race, and I think that kind of erodes it.  Makes it a race for a certain number of the top positions, then a race for certain positions below.  If the rules would preclude the factory teams, the teams that presumably have nearly an unlimited bugdet (look how many bikes Yosh bought Hacking...I think Doan told me like $3mil worth of smashed bikes), from using things that are not obtainable.  Would it change the general result?  I don't think so either.  Would it level the playing field in that if Ben Bostom had an "off" day, some of the private teams and their riders would definitely be bigger players.

Does that make sense to you?

I can make a further case beyond that too.  But, I'll have to do it later.

[fourandsix]

I am not trying to flame anyone just stating what i have seen over the years. Any rider that is interested in running up front in an AMA 600 race can buy that equipment , just bring me a new 600 and $20000 and you can have the same as the factory 600's. Also be prepared to put new tires on the bike every time it hits the track so another $20,000 or so , and lets not forget the $20 a gallon fuel , and the transport and mechanics cost. It is not impossible to run in the top 10 in 600 you just have to have about $150,000 and the skill to put the bike there.

[Baltobuell]

And thus my rational for a real purse.

[Super Dave]

Jim, I'll agree with you there.  It can be done.  But few teams can do that: the purse money is a joke in Supersport (but at least there is one now...there wasn't one at all when I was all hot and heavy doing it), and the AMA promotes itself kind of poorly...better now, but still.

Tires, yeah, that's a given.  No question.  Would the racing be better if Supersport were actually more restricted the way it should be?  Maybe the question would be better stated as, would the racing be better if the quality of the equipment was more equal?  Indeed, the fastest guys would probably still be up front, but we can figure that some guys that run just outside of the top ten might run closer to the front, or, at least, be players in the final result.  Then, no one would doubt that the top guys are there because of skill rather than machinery.  I'll go back to NASCAR Winston Cup...those cars are capable of over 245MPH, however, they are restricted down.  So, although some may not like oval track car racing, one has to admit that the guys that are capable of running up front week in week out are definitely better drivers, better set ups, better organization, and better luck.  

I think originally, this thread was pointed toward Superbike, which should be a more open, it's a builder's class obviously, but some things still apply.

What do you think, Jim?  

I thought you might go to Daytona.  Too much work at the shop I hope?  Or more football?  We just got done with PeeWee football.  Not supposed to keep score...but I think we all did (Our team didn't do so well...LOL!).

[251am]

  Hey Chef,  I let my AMA membership expire after the R.E. mess. I do not like the way they treat privateers either, but it seems like it's probably just a seniority thing. Particilarly in the article I believe you're looking back on, the VIR rehash isn't it? Only a few pros like Bucky and Hacking were taken out to inspect the course on foot, yes?
  I guess if we made the AMA grid, the shine would wear off the apple pretty quick. Money runs thin in a hurry. Hell, even the Pros have been complaining about how badly RA was nicking them on fees!!? As per the # of racers on the grid, that's a different story.
  It was beautiful to see Bostrom, Roberts, and Duhamel buzzing Mladin through Canada Corners last June. However, we also came to see Roger Hendricks, Lucky Dog Racing from Ham Lake MN. I know, not everybody gets a thrill from seeing privateers, but about a dozen of us get a buzz from seeing Lucky Dog.(12 x$100 weekend passes=$1200!!) How much more pathetic would the purses be if entry was restricted to "Pros"?
  There are so many angles, opinions, and possible solutions to this situation it's incredible. Does a rider's Union stand a chance in hell of sorting this out?          

[Super Dave]

Roger beat Yates in the rain at Road America a couple of years ago.  I think Roger kicked at him as he went around him at the carousel...LOL.

Riders union only has power if ALL the riders unite.  At the Pomona AMA races, we pretty much shut it down.  There was only one privateer guy that went on the track.  It didn't make for a very good event, regardless.

In some ways, the fans have more power.  If THEY voiced there disbelief with the lack of rules, the apparent unfairness of rules, etc. then things might get changed.

I do not like the way they treat privateers either, but it seems like it's probably just a seniority thing.

I don't understand what you mean there.  If you mean that the factory guys have been there racing in the AMA longer than the privateers, it's not the case.  Your superbike guys are a pretty experienced lot.  They are all the big fish from all the little ponds.