what do you think....

[fourandsix]

The fans would most definetly care if only 6 or 7 guys showed up to race!

And which fans would that be? Have you noticed the attendance at a FUSA race? The fans come to see the factory stars and the big pit pesentations they put on.

[Super Dave]

I'll agree, Jim.  Not much to see at an FUSA event.  But then, CCE doesn't advertise it much anyway.  Why would you want to spend the money making a nice set it up when all the fliers for the event are sitting at registration (that's what happened at MAM...I think there were 4,000 fliers sitting there)?

But that goes back to the fact that a "race team" shouldn't rely on an "organization" to promote the event.  CART got big because the "TEAMS" made the show.  They promoted themselves and then the events got big.  I always love the CCS/FUSA promos with pictures of riders that have no names.  Big deal.  We can watch anyone "race" a GSXR6RRZ750RR7ii.  Who is it?  Eric Wood, "Super" Dave, Dr Rossi?  Anything would be good.

People still come to local cage races week in, week out.  It could be done.  The "teams" no matter how small need to take responsibility for promoting themselves and what they do.  Done correctly, someone might come out to watch you.

I gave Kevin Hanson the program outline how to do it.  He certainly isn't winning any AMA races, but at least he's getting some press.  At his age and at this point in his racing career, that's what most people need.  That will help him an his program over time, and you actually get fans coming up over the weekend to drop by and check out the progress.  

A real racing series like NASCAR's Winston Cup has interest all through the field.  The teams can be up front or flounder near the back.  Regardless, they have fan support.  Of course, the teams that run up front more than others will probably have more of a fan base, as they should, but the ones in back at least are respected by the fans and the organization.  Fair play.

[Baltobuell]

PRO racing is PRO. Webesters defines it, particapating for gain in an activity often engaged in by amatures. In other words, about money. Dave is right about teams needing to promote themselves and act professionally, but there has to be a return. Factories get publicity to help sales even if their race effort is a negative cash flow. What's in it for a privateer?
 I really have no idea, but I would think qualifying, or finishing 43 of 43 at a NASCAR event pays the bills. That enables teams to spend money on promotion of themselves and sponsors. It all has to go hand in hand. Promoter, track, sponsors and teams, to bring it all together. Right now,  AMA-Proracing squeezing the money for their balance sheet, is choking the sport but hanging on to it's most wealthy clients. It takes $ to make $. The most talented rider in the world is probably skateboarding in an alley somewhere. Tweaking the rulebook isn't going to change that. Money or even the chance of making some, will.

[fourandsix]

But you have to remmber the AMA does not supply the purse the promoter or sposor of the event does

[Baltobuell]

I learn somthing everyday!
So who would be the promoter? Like Lockhart Phillips? If they put up a purse CCS at least advertises it and they'd be a sponsor. If it's a traditional Superbike event doesn't the main purse come from ticket sales and entry fees? I'm sure it gets all legal, with nobody paying for anything they don't have to, but I'm thick, help me out a little. Who's a promoter?

[Super Dave]

Ah, you are learning.

A track pays the AMA a sactioning fee for the "right" to be the AMA event.  Then the AMA people come in and run it.  I think the fee is probably $200k?

The track becomes the promoter in most cases.  They have the track and they figure how much they can make.  There are minimum purses.  Some purses blow...  Some are better.  

Lockhart-Philips is probably paying the AMA a fee to be the title sponsor for that particular class.  Still, the track is paying, etc.  

So, yeah, the gate and whatever is paying the purse, as meger as it is.  Remember Laguna...Mladin got $4000 for his AMA Superbike win...Denning took home $8000 in Yamaha cash for the next weekend at Blackhawk.

[Baltobuell]

So AMA Proracing takes a bucket full, the track promotes the event to make what they can out of spectators and entry fees, and the purses are gas money. Why would guys like Barney bother with AMA unless there is nowhere close to make a buck that weekend. And why would anybody put money in a team that has no chance of breaking even? $4,000 to win a "premier"race is just pathetic. $4,000 to win makes it an amature event since there should be the possibility of profit to be a professional.
 Seems like some cash and good plan could make FUSA the premier event. Pay REAL money at a track semi-close to AMA events and would privateers go to AMA or FUSA. Would you go to Road Atlanta instead of the 200 if it meant 5K in your pocket for 3rd instead of $500 for 10th behind the factories? I really don't know, but I believe the compettition would get tighter and more well financed which is more fun to watch. Then, I think Clear channel has TV contacts for the extra purse money. All 10K or so of it! It might take a year to catch on but FIM would have to take notice, heck, Nascar didn't need anybodys approval, screw FIM too!

[Super Dave]

Well, what do you think Suzuki pays Mladin?

I think that he's trying to negotiate a new potential helmet deal.  His cost would be $130k to have him wear your helmet.  That's where the money for the professional is at...contracts, bonuses, etc.

Barney?  Right, how can he make a real living.

FUSA?  They had a real neat thing going in 2000 when SFX bought out CCS from Roger and then CCE got SFX.  Went down from there for various reasons.  

The 200 pays pretty good money, I believe.  The world wide press coverage is really huge too.  And that's where the contracts and opportunities come from.

Examples of teams that had money, but no money was to be made...

Annandale.  No Limits.

Attack, but I'm not sure who's footing the bill.  

Quarterley was able to do it for a long time because he didn't have the overhead.  He did most of the work himself, then got his program big enough that eventually, everyone wanted to pay to be a part of his program.

Starting to make more sense?

[Super_KC124]

And which fans would that be? Have you noticed the attendance at a FUSA race? The fans come to see the factory stars and the big pit pesentations they put on.

I'll say it again. If 6 or 7 riders showed up to race, the sport would be over as far as major coverage is concerned. It would be like a pro sports team playing the same opponent every game. At least with NAPCAR you have 30 or so drivers, each with a chance to win. The rules make it that way. Motorcycle racing rules don't allow for anyone but the factory riders to have a chance. NASCAR didn't get where is is today by allowing the same 5 guys to dominate every week. Just my opinion. ;)

[Super Dave]

At least with NAPCAR you have 30 or so drivers, each with a chance to win. The rules make it that way

I wouldn't say that each has a chance to win, but it is reasonable to think that a good car at that level isn't far off for a team.  Still, set up, driver, do have to be taken into account.  

Chad Little raced Winston Cup for a while.  Decent car, but he didn't have what it takes.  He wasn't in my book for being close.

However, I think I might put Barney up against some of the guys with an equal bike, and I think that he'd have a really good chance to be up front.

Would six bikes be a good race?

Ok, I'll revisit this one.

You say no.  Jim says yes.  It "could" be a good race.  I've seen races between two guys that were worth watching.  But with only six riders, the opportunity to have a good race diminishes, right?  

I guess that's the trick in our minds.  Winston Cup has thirty some cars on the track.  Makes for a good race.  

Parades?  Well, that just isn't fun to watch.  The Daytona 200 can sometimes be painful to watch.  The coverage, for one, is so one sided (guess that might relate to who's paying the bills:  Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Honda...) to the factory guys.

Guess the most recent example of world class motorcycle racing would be in the 500 class when the grids got so small.  Guys like Wait were out there "riding", but they had no real chance of winning or anything.  Just a parade.  Not fun to watch?

[the_weggie_man]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$This is what it'sall about. F*ck talent, f*ck everything else. No money towards the team, no ride. Simple as that. Just like CCS number one plates. If you have the money you can buy one. if not forget it.

[Super Dave]

 ;D  I think we're up too late.... ::)