OT - Surprising Story on Motorcycle Deaths

[Baltobuell]

 This is a little off topic, but still part of the conversation. I just recieved this E mail and thought it fit.
Subject: How are people over 40 still alive.
>
> FW: How are people over 40 still alive.Subject: FW: How are people over 40
still alive.
> All people over 40 should be dead.
> To the survivors:
> According to today's regulators and bureaucrats, those of us who were kids
> in the 40's, 50's, 60's probably shouldn't have survived.
>
> Our baby cribs were covered with bright colored lead-based paint. We had
> no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets, and when we
>  rode our bikes, we had no helmets. (Not to mention the risks we took
> hitchhiking.)
>
> As children, we would ride in cars with no seat belts or air bags. Riding
> in the back of a pickup truck on a warm day was always a special treat.
>
> We drank water from the garden hose and not from a bottle. Horrors! We
> shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle, and no one
> actually died from this.
>
> We ate cupcakes, bread and butter, and drank soda pop with sugar in it, but
> we were never overweight because we were always outside playing.
>
> We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were
> back when the street lights came on.  No one was able to reach us all
> day. No cell phones. Unthinkable.
>
> We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then rode down

> the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running
> into the bushes a few times, we learned to solve the problem.
>
>  We did not have Playstations, Nintendo 64, X-Boxes, no video games at all,
> no 99 channels on cable, video tape movies, surround sound, personal cell
> phones, personal computers, or Internet chat rooms.  We had friends! We went
> outside and found them.
>
> We fell out of trees, got cut and broke bones and teeth, and there were no
> lawsuits from these accidents.
>
> We made up games with sticks and tennis balls and ate worms, and although
> we were told it would happen, we did not put out very many eyes, nor did the
> worms live inside us forever.
>
> We rode bikes or walked to a friend's home and knocked on the door, or rang
> the bell or just walked in and talked to them.
>
> Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who didn't
> had to learn to deal with disappointment.
>
> The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke a law was unheard of. They
> actually sided with the law. Imagine that!
>
> This generation has produced some of the best risk-takers and problem
> solvers and inventors, ever. The past 50 years have been an explosion of
> innovation and new ideas.
>
> We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned how to
> deal with it all.
>
> And you're one of them! Congratulations.
>
> Please pass this on to others who have had the luck to grow up as kids,
> before lawyers and government regulated our lives, for our own good.
>
> Kind of makes you want to run through the house holding a pair of scissors,
> doesn't it?

[r1owner]

I am a firm believer that there should be NO helmet law.  This is a free country and it's your head.  I also disagree with the seatbelt law.  However, I always wear a helmet, and always wear a seatbelt.  But that's my choice.

I agree with this statement and live the same way.  

As far as arguing that the helmet law will save us insurance money, why not make everyone that drives a car wear one?  I mean I know it can be proven that wearing a helmet will save X% of lives over not wearing one in a car.....lets pass a law that requires the use of helmets while driving any vehicle.  ::)  

While we're at it, lets pass a law stating that you can only have sex in one position, cause any other way than missionary causes back problems and that is a drain on the medicare/insurance system!   ;D

[Super Dave]

The freedom thing.  It is kind of tricky.

Again, driving is not a right.  There are rules and regulations.  You are required to have a license to drive.  Cars must have minimal safety requirements, etc.  

I don't like helmet or seat belt laws, but that doesn't keep me from using them.  However, I don't know if the case can really be made that they restrict our freedoms.  

The Right to Keep and Bear Arms goes back to the ability of the people to hunt for food, protect themselves, family, and friends (and potentially property, and to rise up against oppression.  The founding fathers recognized the need of the people the ability to remove a government.

However, regulations that protect us...

It is a bit different when compared to the freedoms that are considered our "rights".

[VPFL]

Please tell me you are kidding about reinstating the helmet law :o. BIG BROTHER has enough power. We (FL) finally get a little of our freedom to choose back and you want to give it away... ???

"saved from ourselves", think of what you are saying...it definately has a soviet ring to it.

Personally, I think any motorcyclist that doesn't wear a helmet while riding on a major highway is nuts. It's called a calculated risk and one that everyone should make for themselves.

Okay, I'll get off the soap box now.

[Fast4fun]

What conclusions can you draw from the data given? Not many if you consider the vast number of variables that cannot be controlled for. Do Harley riders make up the majority of deaths... well ofcourse- they also make up the majority of bikes sold. Do novice riders represent a danger to themselves... well ofcourse. Does a 46% increase in motorcycle deaths last year mean that motorcycles have suddenly become more dangerous... no, not when you consider sales went up by 200%. How many of those bikes were sold to novice riders is unknown. Beware the pitfalls of making "sound" conclusions from sketchy data. Protect yourself by whatever means you deem necessary. But don't use these weak arguments to mandate my behavior. I'll pay my own insurance based upon my driving history. I'll continue to exercise my good judgement to protect myself while having all the fun a good ride has to offer.
PS
City of Chicago riding is only dangerous if you stop paying attention.

[Burt Munro]

I'm a firm believer that you can 'spin' statistics to support whatever position you choose.

My only reason for bringing this topic up initially was that I was surprised at the trend that was being observed of the substantial increase in deaths of riders over 40.

I was looking for opinions as to the primary reason behind this increase......  inexperience, alcohol, decreased reaction skills, etc.

This was not intended to bash Harleys.  Yes, there are a lot of Harleys out there and a large number of deaths occur with Harley riders.

What I really find interesting was the fact on a national level there was a steady annual decrease in motorcycle deaths from 1980 until about '94 .....
and since then the trend has reversed and there has been a steady increase in deaths each year.

How does this compare to the number of bikes sold from 1980 to 2002?  Is there a direct correlation between the number of deaths and the number of bikes sold each year?  Personally I think there is more to it than that.  And it's not a simple answer.
Maybe a combination of a change in who the 'typical' new riders are (age, income, reason for riding, etc.) along with changes in what type of bike is 'typically' being sold.

Are mandatory helmet laws going to reverse things? Probably not.  Adopting tiered licensing for new riders?  Maybe.  Requiring new rider training courses? Probably.

I know I don't have the answers.  But I enjoy hearing the thoughts of others!

Rick

[Fast4fun]

I agree, these are interesting facts that inspire people to take action. Some are looking for answers and others are looking for action. My rebuttal was to those too quick to jump to action based upon the 'data.' I spend hours each day pouring over studies of this sort identifying their inherent shortcomings. Trying to find positve correlations between the data and outcomes will never provide the 100% certainty that you are looking for, but  trends will be noticeable. At the end of the day, I bet, you will find that overall market factors such as numbers of bikes sold, years of experience, and alcohol are the major players. It is harder than you think to escape the macro market influences. Abberations usually fix themselves, it is called regression to the mean. In the end statistics only speak about populations. They say nothing of your individual ability.