New Visionsports' stuff?

[Super Dave]

It seems as though you know more about any issues than I do.

While the services we provide are different they are much more similar than some will admit.  

Indeed, NESBA has events at race tracks, so does CCS, STT, and so do I.

I've attended all the other events, you, however have not.

[G 97]

I won't get angry and go off on you, but I will put this quite straight forward.

What is there to be angry about? What happened to keeping this straight forward.  Seems a bit of a ramble

I have put on schools for quite some time.  Ten years now.  I've done it for CCS for the standard "racer safety school", and I have offered an independent stand alone school for five seasons now.

No one is questioning your skills, qualifications or experience.  I applaud the fact that you are giving back and sharing this vast knowledge and expertise.  

The stand alone school was also for non racers.  So, the rental rate is different, insurance, etc.  I bear the responsiblity for scheduling the dates, paying anything that is not covered by fees etc.  It is a big expense.

This is what makes business, BUSINESS.  It takes a lot of hard work and dedication in order to be successful and typically those who take this approach are successful.  in reality, no different than a lot of non-owner jobs.  

Garth, I don't think you own NESBA, so if you don't get enough guys, I don't think you take your check from John Deere and pay the cornerworkers, the track, or the insurance.

Yes, you are correct I do not own NESBA.  Just like I do not own John Deere.  It is a choice I made with regard to the risk/reward component involved.  I will say that those in the know would argue your point about me taking my check book and paying for things.  Yes, I got reimbursed but I still had a great deal of exposure with a large amount of money.  Again my choice.

In fact, NESBA gave answer to a racing license holder when he wanted to ride intermediate....

I have no insight nor response for this as I was not there nor did I directly witness the event in question, other than to say;  Although I do not agree with the tactfulness of the response you said was given, I do agree with the premise that having a race license means very little towards identifying and classifying riders per skill level.  I think you will agree to that.  In any event I tend not to put too much faith with "He said, She said" situations.

The second side of this is that I RACE.  I regularly go out and pound on my bike in competition.  Keeps my table full.  When I wasn't racing, I was a consultant at AMA Superbike races.

Responsibility back to the student?  Yes, because I can go anywhere and help anyone.  If there is a group of guys that want to be faster racers at Jennings GP, I can go there.  I'm not going to schedule a program there myself.  

I was at Grattan on Monday.  There was already a program there, and the people involved made the arrangements.  Kept everyone's expenses down.  

I can't have dates for everyone in every region.  I'm not prepared to ask my school staff to go to Mid-Ohio or to the Dakota County Community College.  They have to work and all, drive there, and I don't get paid, so I certainly don't have the opportunity to pay them myself.  I, at least, have the ability to be mobile.

Again, several other people day in and day out face these dynamics, regardless. I think I have a firm grasp on the concept of being busy and having a lot of irons in the fire.  Time management is a premium skill to have in today environment.  Fortunately, I have been blessed with some of this.  If it were easy everyone would do it.

Again, I am not questioning your program or your dedication and what you give back to the sport.  It is quite evident Dave that you walk the talk.  Sometimes we all have to look beyond what we are doing and except what others are doing as well.  I don't ask for anything else.  

[G 97]

Many tracks will rent time on a practice basis.  That's a lot cheaper than what I pay, what NESBA pays, what CCS pays, Sportbiketracktime.com , Star, etc...  It only makes sense.

Additionally, race school...

Really, who has a school that is really for RACERS?  Not a safety school that allows one to purchase a racing license, that's not a racer school.  And you don't need a school where you're told, "You look good out there."  And this new program is something different.  You wouldn't know.  You really don't know what I do.

I agree.  But why would I be expected to know?  Why would I know?  More importantly why would I want to know?  If I remember correctly VRS came to NESBA.  NESBA did not come to VRS.

So, Garth, for your statement...just let it go.

Noway, I'm keeping it all

[G 97]

Indeed, NESBA has events at race tracks, so does CCS, STT, and so do I.

I've attended all the other events, you, however have not.

Oh contraire.  In addition to the above mentioned I have also attended Edge Performance, TraxAddicts, and MAM Moto    

But more importantly, I know what NESBA does.  I also feel I know what needs to be improved on and continued with in order to be successful in the future.  

What happened to: Just let it Go?

[Super Dave]

If I remember correctly VRS came to NESBA.  NESBA did not come to VRS.

Noway, I'm keeping it all

Actually, your riders come to me and look for help.  And it is the decisions after that that determine the courses of action.  

For various reasons, all of my dates cannot necessarily accomodate everyone's needs.  Some riders are just bleeding for some real one on one work.  I can offer that.  

Regardless, this thread had a purpose.  You're really not adding much to the task at hand which was my intention for gathering information from racers for what they would need.

NESBA has a purpose too.  And that is for trackday type practice.  Some racers might want that kind of input, and that is fine.

As for letting it go....

Not sure if you can make a case on this thread.  I'm not sure of your whole point other than taking a jab at me, personally.  Try to make the case otherwise, Garth.

[G 97]

No jab what so ever - No personal reference made on my part what so ever.  In fact I extended several affirmations touting your skill etc.  Did I not?
Just clarifying a previous issue with regard to the task of securing track time.  My apologies for heightening your sensitivity with this subject.   I stand on my own merit.  Here is a part of what I said:

No one is questioning your skills, qualifications or experience.  I applaud the fact that you are giving back and sharing this vast knowledge and expertise.
Again, I am not questioning your program or your dedication and what you give back to the sport.  It is quite evident Dave that you walk the talk.  Sometimes we all have to look beyond what we are doing and except what others are doing as well.  I don't ask for anything else.  


I can not prove a negative and there is no case to be made.  Oops, I think I just made the case.

[Mark Bernard]

If you two can't play nice... I'm gonna seperate you two!  :-X Dang, did I use my out loud typing again? I hate that!! ;D

[OmniGLH]

Ok so in an attempt to get the thread BACK on topic (I will keep my NESBA comments to myself...) - Dave, have you considered hitting up WERA for dates?  I know CCS isn't the only org whose riders need help.  And I know there's a couple of us that have been lightly contemplating dumping CCS next year for WERA...

[Super Dave]

Oh contraire.  In addition to the above mentioned I have also attended Edge Performance, TraxAddicts, and MAM Moto    

But more importantly, I know what NESBA does.

The important part is that I have been to a NESBA day...

You have never came to my day.

That is the contridiction.  You have no idea what I do.

[Super Dave]

No jab what so ever - No personal reference made on my part what so ever.

Interesting.   Curious as to why all the other race schools secure track time themselves directly with the track in question while VRS seems to put this burden back on the student.  So, not only do I have to secure track time directly with the track but I am also required to secure services?   It is all clear with me now

It seems as though you know more about any issues than I do...

It's rather condesending, Garth.  Plain to me.

[Super Dave]

Dave, have you considered hitting up WERA for dates?  I know CCS isn't the only org whose riders need help.  And I know there's a couple of us that have been lightly contemplating dumping CCS next year for WERA...

Well, WERA doesn't own any tracks, so they would not be the people to ask.  You really go to the track.  The problems this year were related to the fact that the dates that I had secured with the owner of Blackhawk Farms before Thanksgiving were eventually taken by CCS for their SRD program.  

Other tracks are available, sure.  Doesn't matter where, just as long as the program can work in small groups.  I have information about Grattan.  MadXX has info about Gingerman, etc., etc.

Regardless, a person or a group can rent a race track, generally, if they have a racing license.  Just a matter of putting it all together.  Indeed, this is all early, there are no schedules and so on.  So, it's all theory right now, but I'm looking at some other avenues also.

Jim, what are you guys going to do?

[MZGirl]

Responsibility back to the student?  Yes, because I can go anywhere and help anyone.  

How about the SW?  Can't beat our winters down here.   ;)