Championship....

[Team_nuclear123]

SO I was thinking....

For next season, Ill buy a RS125 and ZX10 to go with our current ZX6RR. Then we can enter every single race for every weekend, never finish in the top 5, and just cruise to a championship.

Does this count? How hollow is your championship if you havent won a race all season?

Im really just trying to figure it out.....  

I think that we ARE gonna just gun for titles in 4 classes, two DOT, and two Slicks just for the hell of it... Do some WERA stuff, and Daytona, and a few different regions... get some experience at different tracks across the country... What about ya'll???

[Chef]

I have a problem hating someone just because they have money...

but I also have a problem with the # 1 plated expert in our region being passed in every 2wave race by ALL the amatuers...(2004)
 ::) :-X
oops, did i say that???
 :-X :-/ :-X :-/ :-X :-/ :-X :-/

Trophies make for good stories later tho...
just dont mention finishing 2nd or 3rd from last no matter the field...

I'm just sore bout being poor....
(if I had It, I'd buy me one fuh mahself)

 ;)

[EX#996]

I have a problem hating someone just because they have money...

but I also have a problem with the # 1 plated expert in our region being passed in every 2wave race by ALL the amatuers...(2004)
 

That didn't happen until he injured himself at MAM.  

He was out to prove a point and as you can see, he accomplished that.

Dawn   :)

[Super Dave]

He was out to prove a point and as you can see, he accomplished that.

The point has been proven many, many times.  It is sad.

CCS's new computer system might be able to calculate championship points based on, let's say, a riders five best finishes.

It shouldn't be about money...but about performance.

[smoke]

but I also have a problem with the # 1 plated expert in our region being passed in every 2wave race by ALL the amatuers...(2004)
 ::) :-X
oops, did i say that???
 :-X :-/ :-X :-/ :-X :-/ :-X :-/

 ;)[/quote]
  Are u for real???????????????  That can't be true.

Team Nuc
I see your point about the chap thing.. What it all comes down to u as a person..( Would u feel that u have earned the #1 plate or a champ if u did that?)   I can only speek for me but I would feel like I cheeted.  I am going to run two bikes next year but for a diff reason.  The LW grids are not packed with 42 some odd people like MW.  All the stuff I learn on the LW I can then apply it to the MW class but with more power.  I will be like u go to other tracks to learn.  ( will be at Blackhawk next year!!!!! ;D)

[sdiver68]

Hey....

It takes quite an effort and dedication to be out there every weekend running 12+ races.  Not to mention coming back with cracked ribs and broken collarbone within 1 race weekend.  

Now, whether or not that effort deserves a #1 plate can, has, and will be debated.  But, I don't take anything away from his effort...he is learning and getting faster as he goes, just because he is doing that with a ton of races should be of little concern to anyone.

Besides, from what I saw this weekend, Janish probably "deserves" the #1 plate.  :o

[TZDeSioux]

Don't hate! Participate! He's playing by the rules. If the rules allow him to win the #1 plate for the year.. then cool. It's nobody's business.

Steve.. how you holding up chief? Hope things are getting back to normal for ya.

[fizzer400]

" Does this count? How hollow is your championship if you havent won a race all season? "

None whatsoever! Plenty of professional racing championships have been won by people who never won a race, but was consistent.

It does kinda suck that you can basically "buy" a championship, but the # of races has to be taken into account. What about the guy who only races a handful of events every year, but cleans house? Does he deserve the championship over a guy who showed up at all or almost all the events and consistently placed in the top 5? I'm not sure how I feel about this either.

Jeff
CCS #419

[THE_D.O.C.]

this debate happens evey year.

i don't like the current rule either. they should do away with it, but they'd prolly lose a lot of entry fees.

[smoke]

I see your view; ( he or she earned  it by spending money and time to go out there every weekend and competting and never finished top 10) but Like I said I can only speak for myself I would think I cheeted if I one that way.  

To each his own

[Dawn]

Don't hate! Participate! He's playing by the rules. If the rules allow him to win the #1 plate for the year.. then cool. It's nobody's business.

Steve.. how you holding up chief? Hope things are getting back to normal for ya.

Thank you!!!!

Dawn   :)

[TZDeSioux]

The way I see it.... there's no difference between 2nd place and last place. :)

By the way.. didn't Ben Bostrom win a AMA Superbike Championship without winning a single race?

[THE_D.O.C.]

yeah, and ben rode like a poof.

give me racers that race. keep the championships.

[Mark Bernard]

By the way.. didn't Ben Bostrom win a AMA Superbike Championship without winning a single race?

Why yes he did....

[sdiver68]

Don't hate! Participate! He's playing by the rules. If the rules allow him to win the #1 plate for the year.. then cool. It's nobody's business.

Steve.. how you holding up chief? Hope things are getting back to normal for ya.

Hey Brian,

Things are progressing pretty well, arm wise. I'm getting some movement back in the arm, actually way ahead of schedule...of course i've been paying for the progress with pain but I want it back ASAP.

Don't tell my family :o...but a comeback next season may be in the cards if my current rehab continues its current pace  I'm thinking an SV since they are easier to ride in comparison, and fewer wannabes in the LTWT classes.  It really depends on how the neck tests out next Spring.

[Team_nuclear123]

Ben did win a championship, but he did so by consistantly running up front, not just by running...

Hell, We are running 10 races a weekend in pursuit of the championship, and are rapidly closing on it, but is it RIGHT for us to bring out a 125 and run all the lightweight classes to gain 200 more points a raceweekend? That makes it kinda hollow, at least for us.

I think that it should be based on your top five finsihes, regardless of how many races you run. We would still run 7 or 8 a weekend, just for the experience. As far as class championships go, Thats gonna be our focus for next year....

[TZDeSioux]

Hey Brian,

Things are progressing pretty well, arm wise. I'm getting some movement back in the arm, actually way ahead of schedule...of course i've been paying for the progress with pain but I want it back ASAP.

Don't tell my family :o...but a comeback next season may be in the cards if my current rehab continues its current pace  I'm thinking an SV since they are easier to ride in comparison, and fewer wannabes in the LTWT classes.  It really depends on how the neck tests out next Spring.

Glad to hear that you're almost there. You've got 7 months before the 04 season starts so hopefully you will be fully recovered by then. Can't wait to race you in LWGP  :D

[Chef]

That didn't happen until he injured himself at MAM.  

He was out to prove a point and as you can see, he accomplished that.

Dawn   :)

Well Dawn, I dont know if we're talking about the same person, but the gingerman race, b4 MAM, this would be the second expert that i passed from the AM wave, and i NEVER caught the fast experts unless they fell or were in the wet without rains...

and I did say that i cant hate anyone for having money, that is definately MY problem and NOT theirs.

AND I SURELY know what it takes to make every round and run 10 races, so 12 or 14 must be applauded (even finishing 3rd from last all the time)

Take it easy...

[Chef]

Hey Brian,

Things are progressing pretty well, arm wise. I'm getting some movement back in the arm, actually way ahead of schedule...of course i've been paying for the progress with pain but I want it back ASAP.

Don't tell my family :o...but a comeback next season may be in the cards if my current rehab continues its current pace  I'm thinking an SV since they are easier to ride in comparison, and fewer wannabes in the LTWT classes.  It really depends on how the neck tests out next Spring.

DUDE!,
GREAT News 68 (I owe ya one :D).....
Knuckle down, Man.... Make it happen! Make us proud!!!

can I borrow your bike ???  ::) ;D
Ike
 :)

[am_#65_john_deere]

hey steve,

i'm planing on a sv for next year too/

see ya out there.

hope to make gateway at the end of the season, so i might see ya there.

good to hear you're doin well.
anthony.

[Super Dave]

" Does this count? How hollow is your championship if you havent won a race all season? "

None whatsoever! Plenty of professional racing championships have been won by people who never won a race, but was consistent.

Thomas Stevens won the 1991 (?) AMA Superbike championship without winning.  There was flack.  Matt Kennseth has only won one race this year in the Winston Cup Championship, but he looks set to win it all.  

Championships are about the "best".  Points structures have been changed over the years to get people to be consistent.  Pay points down further and everyone can get on the list of top guys, then the guys that aren't the fastest start moving up in the standings.  With CCS's points system paying down to 50th place (How many races do you know of with 50 guys?), it's obvious that you can go do a lap or two and get a significant number of points.

Now, the rules are being followed, and at least the ones getting the championship are at least staying out for the duration of the race.  There have been others that went out, did two laps, then came in.  That's bs...

[Team_nuclear123]

Points to 50th.. thats a laugh riot....

How about points to fifth... In your top five classes only... Rewards not  only being consistent, but being fast as well.

Remember, Ben would have won at Brainerd if he didnt get black flagged for a minor oil leak that make his bike smoke, but smoke less than either HD in the field...

But  you are dealing with a one class championship. Imagine if the AMA championship was decided by the total number of finsihes in every class, or even by the total for each manufacturer. 40 or 50 semi factory bikes in every class to win the overall... LOL

Top 5 get points, in the best five races they do per weekend...

Now we might just be getting somewhere....

[Super Dave]

Well, it is still club racing.

You've got to reward the people for coming.  Pay points to 15th, like the AMA used to do, now it's down to 30th?  That would still make the chase interesting.  Top three would get more points, bigger spread.  

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

     I am feeling like I should have only done track days this year based on this re-occuring subject. Being that I haven't had the money this year to be buying tires to race competetively I decided to follow the series for enjoyment, instead of serious competition. I did as I have in the past which was to pick certain classes to follow all year as though I was in a points race, and I did that. But for whatever reason I ended up in the front of the points, yes by finishing in the back. What is even more suprising is my Top 10 Overall points standing on top of it. I am also guilty of running just a few laps at events where the temperatures were excessive for me (I have had trouble with heat all my life). I went to those events optomistically hoping for weather that wasn't so hot, but since it was really hot I at least went out there for a few laps till I felt it wasn't safe for me to be out there anymore, then I came in (before I got in the way of the leaders). I purchased a Coolmax shirt toward the end of the season which helped, but next year I plan on having a cool pack vest so I can stay out for the whole race when it's hot.

     After all the complaining I have seen on here about this subject in general I intentionally did not go to Gateway the last event so as to let those more deserving of class championships have them. I am also considering not attending any of the remaining events so I will drop out of the Top 10 Overall points also. I ended up in the Top 10 Overall points by only running 4 classes per event all season.

     I look at it this way, I got where I was at by always showing up and following CCS's rules, that's stategy to me. But on the other hand, I also know that I wasn't pushing this year, so I have stepped aside at the end of the season knowing that I could have earned multiple class championships and a Top 10 plate.

     Sorry for showing up this season.  :-/

[Team_nuclear123]

Mike, I think you took it the wrong way....

There are a few people that just show up, run 10 or 14 races a weekend and lead or win championships... The real truth is in your %. There are people leading the overall for their region right now that have a ratio of under 500....

THATS what sucks. If you only race a few, and kick ass, go for it dude! You EARNED that right. If you just shwo up and spend money, well.....

Race to win......

[Super Dave]

Mike, I think you took it the wrong way....

I agree.

Mike, you're doing what you can, and you're only entering a handful of races.  I don't think it is the same.

I won a regional championship in 1993.  Yes, I entered nine races a weekend.  But, when I did it, there was a different points structure.  I'd win three to six races a weekend.  All said and done, I skipped the last round of that series to do the final AMA race at Sears Point (I did the whole AMA series that year too).  Missing the final round, I still won the regional championship and eight class championships (Got second in the last one...a mistake in that one in the rain cost me that one.  One of the first guys I mentored won that championship, so, at least, I didn't feel that bad.  He just followed the program style that I layed out for him...
 ;D)


If you're entering four classes a weekend and you're in the top ten...seems pretty good from my side of the fence.  I usually enter five.  

[sdiver68]

can I borrow your bike ???  ::) ;D
Ike
 :)

If you promise not to crash it we could work something out, I assume you mean for Gateway Oct?

Back to the subject at hand, I would have finished 3-5th overall and had 4-5 class championships had I not had an unfortunate incident in the 7th weekend.  I ran 6 classes per weekend, and typically finished anywhere from 5th to 12th...unless the FUSA-type pros showed up.  However, 4 of my classes were expert money classes, and a 5th one of the 3 real money class for those chasing manufacturer contingency (MWSS).  So, would I have been any less deserving of a Top 5 plate than anyone else?

What about the LTWT guys who can also run 6 classes per weekend...but typically with less people per race and typically less competition?  the points are still the same for eash place!

How about awarding plates based on the perfomance index.  Des this not reward the "homer" who runs only 1 or 2 tracks and skips the ones where he is not a local?  Also, does this not penalize the 600cc guy who enters ULGP regularly, but then ahas to contend with long tracks like RA and MAM?

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

You'd better stay home Mike, because I'm gonna put a boot upside your butt!  Dude, I've been involved in racing for 40 years, and the ONE ABSOLUTE TRUTH that I've learned about racing is that Lady Luck has a sick sense of humor.  By leaving this opportunity on the table, you've virtually gauranteed that you will never achieve success again.  So many things can happen when you're TRYING to win a title that will prevent you from getting it.  How could you possibly leave one on the table when you've earned it?  This could be your only shot, so GO GET YOUR CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!  I remember going to the SCCA car racing runoffs with my Dad the first time.  We had a piece of dung car and just went for fun.  We got third!  In seven more trys, often with far and away the best car, we never even finished the race again.  I'm telling you Mike!  I've even seen racers ask other racers if they could stand down from a points chase and allow the other guy to win.  Personally, I'd rather die.  If it's my big-money sponsorship dollars pro team asking me to do it, OK maybe.  But we're just little guys spending our own time and money on an insane hobby.  TAKE WHAT'S YOURS!!!
Have I made my point Mike?

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

You'd better stay home Mike, because I'm gonna put a boot upside your butt!

Have I made my point Mike?

     K3, I appreciate the enthusiastic encouragement. :o, but I am afraid to say that they are already gone due to the last Gateway being a twin sprint event. I may still have a Top 10 overall points position, but I have no idea how the points stand after last weekend. Being that the only remaining race is at Gateway for the GP Region, and it's right before the ROC, I doubt I will go to that event either. This whole deal has really taken the wind out of the sails, if you know what I mean? I have barely been able to keep racing after loosing all my overtime at work as it is, now it just seems like a waste to go to the last regional event. I am still going to go to the ROC though, I am transporting all Benji's stuff down there for him to REPRESENT the Midwest and hopefully Michael Jordan is going to be able to go also, plus I need a vacation BAD!

     I agree that opportunity may only knock once, but I am seriously going to give it a true effort next year and try again. :)

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

    I agree that opportunity may only knock once, but I am seriously going to give it a true effort next year and try again. :)

Well, I hope it works out.
On a brighter note, you're gonna poop in your leathers the first time you roll those high banks!  Nothing you've done in your life will prepare you for the pure, irrational stupidity required to race at Daytona.  Horizontal, 5 stories in the air at 170mph.  Oooooh.  The memory of it is making me touch myself.  Dang, I wish I was going this year.  I HATE money.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

Well, I hope it works out.
On a brighter note, you're gonna poop in your leathers the first time you roll those high banks!  Nothing you've done in your life will prepare you for the pure, irrational stupidity required to race at Daytona.  Horizontal, 5 stories in the air at 170mph.  Oooooh.  The memory of it is making me touch myself.  Dang, I wish I was going this year.  I HATE money.

     K3, I raced at the ROC in '98 & '99, your right it is definately something you don't experience at any other track. Now it's time to start preparing financially for a true effort next year so I won't be caught off guard like this year.

[Chef]

If you promise not to crash it we could work something out, I assume you mean for Gateway Oct?

 

I wish i could make that promise !!!
I wish i couldve promised myself that once i finally put the tranny back together and painted my leathers (ala Alexa at Spider Leatherworks) to match my new spray paint job, but it doesnt always go that way, I wanna do gateway tho, and will probably have the ole trusty Honda ready by then...
thanks tho, bro.!!!


And Mike,
We are talking about the ones who INTENTIONALLY corner the market with their money, you cant scheme like that with, lessay... under 10 races...
and I'd say if you ran under 8, and noone showed up, hell, It's yours!
yougo...