DUMP THE POINTS PAGE

[xlr8tn]

OK, one more and I'll let it go.

CCS doesn't have the clout to change it? All this about CCE not updating the site? Whatever. Either a lot of people don't know diddly about Web sites and current technology or it's a bunch of BS.

OK, the argument is that CCE doesn't feel comfortable with someone updating their site. I can see that, seems valid, I  don't like people messing with my code either. But we're not talking about code. We're not talking about some fancy integration, have you seen the results and points pages? Do they look like CCEs site? No!

CCE can create a directory and give only CCS access privelleges to it.  It would be secure, it's done all the time. CCS would not have access to CCE code or anything other than the directory. It looks like the directory already exists at: http://www.formulausa.com/results/2003

CCS already generates the HTML files. All CCS needs to do is copy that HTML file to that special directory. Believe me if you can figure out how to post on this site, you can copy that file--you could even do it using Windows Explorer. Now with one simple If statement CCE could check for the Result file's existance and if it exists display a link to it. It's that simple.

Now for the points. When they are updated CCS simply writes over the Points file in that same directory and everyone sees the latest points update.

It's not rocket science.

Why does CCS need CCE???  CCE owns most of the radio stations around this area and have not once heard reference to CCS events in the local area.  Don't we pay enough to pay ccs employees?

[Super Dave]

OK, I'm gonna go off for a bit...

The motorcycle industry $ucks.  It fails to support anything active that goes on around it.  Most businesses are based on hype rather than actual real technology, etc.  There are people out there that I love to work with though.  They are hard to find, and when I do find them, I try to guard them from harm.

Now, here's my beef...

I've listened to this one for a long time, and it doesn't work.

I appears that the focus of so much stuff in racing is trying to get new people involved.  Supposed to lead to more coverage, more popularity, etc., etc.  Never believed it, still don't believe it.  I've been so active that I put on schools for CCS.  Even went so far as to have my own school.  Didn't see any increase in anything because of new racers.

The point?  It costs a lot more to get new people that it does to take care of the current customers you have.

Motorcycle racing is cr@ppy because there is very little longevity.  Racers are cast aside by the racing organizations like petty children.  Either we don't have the knowledge or they don't care.  I'm not sure which it is, but that's the way we are treated.  Am I right or am I right?  

The biggest aim that I had when I incorporated in 1999 was to offer a program for racers so that they would have some tools to manage the problems, avoid the standard money pitfalls, and know how to manage the mind games that you can put yourself into.  

Needless to say, the program that I had was pretty decent.  Wasn't paying any bills, just making them.  But I could see that we were at least having an impact among the racers.  Guys that I might have though would have gone away were staying, and racers were making good decisions.  One's that racers with six and seven years of experience have a hard time making.  

The reality is that the local CCS staff in the Midwest, or the main office, failed to recognize the fact that I had been renting specific dates from Blackhawk for four years. I have held a CCS license since 1988, I have been an active and vocal part of the road race community for some time, and that I did take the time and opportunity to put up brochures, banners, website, support racers, etc.  If you were blind, you'd still probably know about what I'm doing.  (Four amateur BFR track champions in five years?  Not bad.  The banquet is a good time for me just to watch my children...)  

Regardless, the decision was made to ask for the dates under a program that has the purpose of trying to get more people involved in road racing, the Lockhart/Philips Sport Rider Day.

It appears that these programs have completely failed in that respect, attracting new racers.  

With their corruption of my schedule this year, they have ruined the work and the investment that I made in trying to support the current racers.

The points, licenses, cutting of practice times, (insert your resonable gripe here) all seem to point to the fact that the system fails for it's current riders.  All and all, I think there are a lot of people that are looking for something different.  If someone would put together something else, I'm there.

I'm even having problems trying to work with people in NESBA.  Guess I must be intimidating...I'll stop there with that.  

Guys, I'm a gun that's loaded.  I'm a rock at the top of a mountain...potential waiting to happen.  I'm pretty tired of all the promises that get broken consistently.  There is either action or wrong actions.  I'd be happy with the wrong actions at this point, but this is all like watching paint drying....but I'm still waiting for the paint to go on the wall.  Put up the wrong points for me...I'd at least feel better waiting for something to be corrected rather than again to see August 4, 2003[/b] for a date again on the Midwest points.

Wait, I've got more....

[Super Dave]

 Economy bad?  Sure.  Tell a rider that if he doesn't like GTU expert and amateur combined that he can have his money back?  Hey, that's trying to keep the riders happy!  Bl0w me!  Spend the money on getting sponsorship to run track days to involve sport riders that will never race...hey, sounds like you really want me to spend my money.  Give a rider that's on the edge about racing an answer like that...he's gone for life.  Might not want to even see a race after that because it's all bull...

So, back to rider retention, why would someone want to pay to come see some two and three year racers race?  I sure wouldn't. (I think that's refered to as "sportsman" racing.) Nice people and all, but their programs haven't developed.  Go to a local oval car race and watch there.  At least it might be interesting with guys that have been racing and are experienced.  They have developed programs, supporters, people that want to see them get beat.  It gives the younger guys something to shoot for.  Back to retaining riders again...that might actually bring people in.

As the "Visionsports' guy", people shoot for me.  I've made myself a visable thing on and off the track.  Honestly, I like to win, but it doesn't ruin my day if I don't.  I'm there to put on a show, have some fun, and work with my VRS people.  That's what I do.  Does that lend something to the program?  Sure, it does!

So, the points thing is just a representative problem.  

Ok, who's got a fix?  I AM all ears...      >:(

[motomadness]

Bring back the local team challenges.  It will create the real feeling of teams racing teams.  The efforts of on major sponsors won't depend on the success or failure of one individual, so if the team grows or shrinks, there is still something the spectators can look at.  For example, the Chi-town Hustlers are a regular staple in the Mid-West and I hope they can continue to have some longevity no matter how many members continue to race.  They've been competing as a group for several years now, and have influenced many fellow street riders to become racers, not to mention their pit presence.  The same goes for VRS, Learning Curves, Cold Beer Racing and several others that continue to grace our part of the US.

Maybe we Mid-westerners can put together a large solicitation package to bring in some larger sponsorships to the tracks we race at, which in turn can make it more inexpensive for us to use the tracks, as well as improve the facilities at some of the venues.  Big team challenge events with large purses are the way to go.  Maybe we could start with AMA length races (solos), then twice that distance for team challenges.

[Mark Bernard]

Dave... Your absolutley right! Case and point... I dont know if you noticed, but... our team (Kegel's) now only consists of Karl, Mikey, and me. Thats it! We lost Richie Fagen, Curt Ellis, and John Spinelli. Why? Its not too hard to figure out. So yes,...instead of new riders comming into our sport, were loosing them left and right. And loosing them forever! They were great people to have around and now there gone for good like so many others and it's realy realy sad. I don't know what the "FIX" is or what is the best solution is but all I know is that somthing has to be done or were going to loose racers, fans, and friends of the sport forever. I'm 43, have had my license for 4 years. I personally am having a good time and plan to continue till I'm carried off the track kickin and screamin. But thats me... most people dont have my patients and I dont expect them too. But CCE and CCS need to do something before it looses all of its "customers"!

[tshort]

Ok, who's got a fix?  I AM all ears...      >:(

Well - you/we (ie, the Midwest Region) could take a page out of CMRA's book - and simply dump CCS. :o  I don't know much about the CMRA guys/gals - I've hung out around WERA more.  WERA is the same idea, really, though - it's run by the racers, for the racers.  Not some faceless, soul-less corporate thing.  

It would not be easy to do this, but it would be something that might garner a lot of support, at least among those of us in the Midwest.

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

Dave... Your absolutley right!

DItto.

If you notice my sig, you'll see what I might be planning on doing for racing.

[Nate R]

Interesting idea tshort, and I kinda like it. But you're right, it would NOT be easy. First of all, we'd have to form it, as CRA was already in place. Then, we'd have to somehow get race dates, and people to know about it all. It'd be a lotta work, but we could really end up with something nice. MidWest Road Racing Assoc, etc.

I'm also very curious to see what kind of changes are in store for CCS. But, I'm also prepared to do what I can to help a new organization along if that's what it will take to get things fixed in the MW.

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

Dave, I luv you, Man.

Sean, thanks for the compliment.  The Hustlers really have tried to be a magnet for the sport.  Watch as we sway in the breeze, always on the verge of becoming extinct due to lack of money.

As for Tom's idea, you'd be surprised how many of the pieces are already in place.  What is really required is for a large group of people to make the commitment to getting the ball rolling.  Fed up racers unite!

[Super Dave]

Well - you/we (ie, the Midwest Region) could take a page out of CMRA's book - and simply dump CCS. :o  I don't know much about the CMRA guys/gals - I've hung out around WERA more.

CMRA is a stand alone organization like the CRA or MRA.  They decided to be a CCS affiliate a few years ago.  So, when they decided to part ways, they did.

The Midwest CCS region is OWNED by CCS.  It is a pretty profitable region also.  So, it can't "break away."

Now, Nate, this all sounds nice, but the biggest thing that is necessary...

Money...

Contingency...

Without it, you can't rent the track, pay the insurance, pay the workers, etc.

No contingency, well, you'll have racers that can't show up.

Next, you've got to have things scheduled so that you can have the tire guys there and all.  And the dates are already taken for 2004.

Sean...Team Challenge races are only good for the racers.  Really boring for people to watch in reality.

Sponsorship for an event in CCS has to go through the main office.  They charge a fee I believe.  Looked into being a sponsor of some races in 1999, but it was a nightmare.  I ended up just going to registration and putting an envelop into some riders awards.  Never did get a response anyway from those people.  I guess fourth place was good enough for them.

The Kegel's Team...Yeah, I've watched it.

[motomadness]

I guess I wasn't think about the people watching the TC, but the possible sponsors that could get behind the teams.

[Super Dave]

I guess I wasn't think about the people watching the TC, but the possible sponsors that could get behind the teams.

Well, we're back to that.  If it doesn't generate any watching, then what are you sponsoring?  There was nothing in the way of contingency for 2001, very little for 2002.  Probably similar for 2003.  The industry doesn't want to support it...kind of like the 250GP class.  Yamaha used to offer contingency money for 250 GP bikes at the regional level in addition to the support at the Pro level.  That's all gone.