Qualifying for Amature Races

[ecumike]

I guess I should also state that I would then expect the existing LW/MW/HW classes rules to be expanded slightly, such that we didn't totally exclude a range of bikes.  Base it more or less on cc's or something.

I'm not trying to say that I want certain bikes banned or anything - just cut down on the # of classes.  Stop with all of these specialized classes where only a handful of bikes qualify or even enter.  Just eliminate the class altogether and stick 'em in another class.

A'ight, as long as we don't skimp out the LW classes, that's cool  :P

[tzracer]

I am not sure qualifying times from practice is a good idea. Practice can be crazy enough without people trying to get in a fast lap.

[MELK-MAN]

1) separate by times only??? ok.. watch this. You wanna win an AM championship so you pad your qualifying lap times a few seconds each qualifying session to make sure you stay AM in fear of being bumped.
2) as many pointed out, this is club racing. We dont get TV coverage. Hey, i just wanted a step up from a local track day! And if i can win a few races.. COOL! I deserve it for my 1st year as a racer. Ill have my butt handed to me next year but for NOW.. i wanna make like the sun and SHINE!!  :)

[ceesthadees]

My $0.02,

I think CCS, WERA, etc. are generally in a no win situation. Any changes are sure to pi$$ somebody off.

For instance, to have more classifications of RIDERS, they would have to eliminate some classifications of BIKES. And, of course the reverse is true. Either way, about half of the riders are gonna howl.

I do not think the organizers have enough manpower or time to grid the races on the day of the race. Besides, I have been to a lot of races, therefore a lot of race practice sessions, and have seen a lot of stupid things. I cannot even imagine the carnage if practice times were used for gridding. Scary!  :o

So, CCS and WERA probably have to use a pre-set grid, just to be able to handle so many races. CCS uses entry date, WERA uses points. Neither is perfect.

As for the speed differences, just a fact of life at just about every level except MotoGP and WSB. Besides, I wonder what percentage of multi-bike crashes are because of slow riders getting in the way, or fast riders dicing with other fast riders.

[MightyDuc Racing]

I am still a new racer this year.  Yes I have gone pretty fast and have pretty much run up front all year.  However, I can't wait to get into the Expert ranks, cuz I feel that following the faster riders will make me that much faster.  I owe a lot of my speed this year to Michael Mills and Scuba Steve.  They are going fast, and I ride that much harder to stay with them.  They have more track time than I do, so I basically have to be able to watch and learn some from guys like that to improve myself, etc. etc.  If you keep some Amateurs out of the expert class because of lap times, how do you expect the old theory of "riding with faster riders makes you go faster" to take effect?

[silverstate]

The thing that keeps coming up in my mind is that the AMA pro's have the same issues that we do. Think about the 200 at Daytona. Any 'qualified' expert with a GSXR 1000 can go out and get gridded in the field. Most of the guys do not complete all 57 laps. Many guys struggle to break the 2:00 mark during the race. And these are fast guys! Guys that are quick at the various local tracks around the country. Every year, Maladin or DuHamel or whoever, has a few near misses passing the privateers, Especially late in the race.
We have these same issues  to deal with as Amateurs, albeit on a much lower level. Does a rank amateur/newbie have the same skills as a pro trying to race with the big dogs at Daytona? Hell no, but how does one get experience? How do you gain confidence to hold your line and not freak out when being passed or passing? By doing it. Just like anything in life. I think it just makes all of us better riders.
In mountain biking (another love of mine) people will move big rocks or logs off of the trail simply because they can't clear the obsticles easily. This makes the trails less enjoyable for those riders that do have the skills to jump or ride over such  impediments. How will a rider (of any kind) get any better if we simply remove the challanging parts.
It reminds me of the crap that is happening in youth soccer leagues where they don't keep score and both teams are winners. BS.
Want to gain confidence riding a racing bike? Buy a cheap dirtbike and take it out for a weekend. Try feet up powerslides until you can't stand crashing anymore! Learn front braking technique where in the dirt the wheel will plow easily. Steer with the rear tire spitting up roost. Big fun and great excersise. And your bike skills will soar, not to mention your confidence. Spend a grand on a bike and some good gear and have fun.
My 2 cents, I will sit down now. Thank-you.

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

I am not sure qualifying times from practice is a good idea. Practice can be crazy enough without people trying to get in a fast lap.

We've discussed this before.  With the all-skate practices CCS runs, qualifying times taken from them would make practice even more dangerous than the races.  Better to look at the times a guy is turning in his races, and asign him from there.
Of course the record keeping required to do this would probably be beyond the skeleton crew that CCS is allowed by Clearchannel.  Look at the points...

[bweber]

Just wondering where everyone thinks the extra time needed to run a third class or qualifying sessions will come from.  Are we going to get two 5 minute practice sessions in the morning, 15 minute endurance races and 4 lap sprint races?
Dealing with slower, inconsistant riders is part of being an amateur.  If you don't like it, that is your motivation to move to expert.  The fast amateurs should quit sandbagging and move up to expert class.  I am pretty sure you can petition CCS and even make the move mid-season.

[skydiver19]

Another hurdle for qualifying set by practice lap times is the fact that many people race multiple bikes on a given weekend using the same transponder.  I doubt that CCS is in position to provide a transponder for every single bike to take the track, therefore, the possibility (probability) exists that someone is going to take their Superbike out to qualify for a Supersport race.  Even worse, take their Heavyweight bike out to qualify for a Middleweight race.  Considering how many people I know that use Superbikes in Supersport races already, this is not a stretch of the imagination.

[OmniGLH]

Seems like there are a couple different conversations that are getting intermingled here.

IF we were to eliminate half the classes, then we would easily have enough time to get an extra practice session in the morning, and call it "qualifying".  Everybody gets 2 hot laps or something.

As for someone using their SB to qualify for SS - well I'm not talking about qualifying for grids.  I was just thinking of holding qualifying to differentiate between "slow" and "fast" groups.  And really, we could probably even break it down to those who have already once qualified for the "fast" group - will remain in the fast group.

[ecumike]

Seems like there are a couple different conversations that are getting intermingled here.

IF we were to eliminate half the classes, then we would easily have enough time to get an extra practice session in the morning, and call it "qualifying".  Everybody gets 2 hot laps or something.

As for someone using their SB to qualify for SS - well I'm not talking about qualifying for grids.  I was just thinking of holding qualifying to differentiate between "slow" and "fast" groups.  And really, we could probably even break it down to those who have already once qualified for the "fast" group - will remain in the fast group.

There you go again... wanting to get rid of the LW class... sheesh.. can't we 'little bike' guys get a break?  Just because we're not on the 'big bikes' doesn't mean we don't count.
:P  :) :D

[AntiqueRoadShow]

I'm puzzling over all this. Maybe rather thsn jumping in the middle of the 600 Am. Riding some of the Sportsman classes would be a better idea. A competitive bike is relavtively inexpensive and there's a good mix of slow and fast riders, just not 40 of them.