AM to EX upgrades

[lil_thorny]

Great ideas concerning gridding, etc.
i will be honest with you all and say that the only reason that i stayed amateur past the second weekend was not the Am championship but because
of how smooth i wasn't. Last weekend @ BHF,
the EX's were running mid 12's to win. which is
about 1.5 sec's better than the first BHF. I worked
real hard on being smooth the last 3 weekends
and was riding other peoples bikes..some slower, some faster(750's) which are a hoot compared to my 600!!!  my point is, even tho I may have a
fast learning curve, i still needed to learn a lot!
i now feel that it would be in my best interest to move to expert. i'm smoother now(i think) and i
feel that i have sort of plateau'd with my lap times.
i can't speek for any other AM out there with the exception of maybe JJ Z and certainly stumpy who i know is a true Amateur. We both have improved from track time and riding against eachother. my times dropped 2 whole seconds the last month by working on being smooth. low 13's now on the 600....feels good...
Gridding improvements would help things be more safe, but something else still needs to be implemented to level-out the playing field. When
we're done with practice on sat morn, everybody goes to the tower to look at times, and i am amazed
at the differences between Am's and Ex's.
Am's can be 20 sec's apart, where as Ex's more like 5sec's.
so what do we do now? how do we make these improvements? Not for myself, being an ex now. but
for the new guys who will be fast AM's next year and years to come.
oh one other thing, did anybody else notice that when the blue flag was thrown at the LC(learning Curves) guys, they would look back while standing the bike up. Everytime!  I almost high-sided in T4
when one of these LC guys got stuffed by Stumpy...
and parked his S h i t  in front of me.  These sort of situations is what is wrong with the current system.
The Blue/orange shirted newbians need not be doing
that when points are on the line. I know that's part of racing, but not this late in the year! right? 5 sec's is one thing, but 25- 30 mph in a 2nd gear corner while constantly shifting lines is another!
Benji. #30

[Super Dave]

Would adding a Jounior classification keep the speed of the bikes closer (that is what we are after in this discussion)? Some racers could be in the beginner class their entire career.

Probably would keep things different, maybe not closer.  The beginner class would be limited to a certain time period.  

Do we run all 3 classifications seperate (no combined races, LRRS runs Jr/Ex combined)?

There might be some combined some way.

[quoute]Do all three classifications run the same classes? If not who would decide which classes at Jr and which at expert? Are most of the classes then Jr with a few amateur and expert races, especially if races are not combined?[/quote]

I wouldn't think there would be the exact same classes.  Minimal number of "amateur" races for experience.  A reasonable number of "junior" races for the sportsman type of rider...rider that is gaining experience for becoming a faster rider to potentially turn expert and for the rider that is racing to have fun.  And a minimal number of premier "expert" races, with purses.

Perhaps FormulaUSA should be expanded, allowing only Pro/Expert riders.

Expanded to what?  It can't stand alone under the current budget.  No one can seem to take the time to even get any brochures out, even if 4,000 were printed.

I think part of the problem is that there is no place for faster experts to go. AMA is a pretty big jump from club racing.

Financially, it's a huge jump.  A good budget to go AMA racing is about $70,000.  And you could never build a bike that would be competitive against the factory specials.

What if a more intermediate series is set up, but with a few more dates than most national series have, maybe east/west type series? This would leave the current CCS races to the club racers and developing racers (FUSA racers would not be eligible for CCS points, purses, or contingencies).

Travel problems for most racers would make it poorly attended.  Unless there was a huge purse.  With the poor support of the motorcycle industry, only a tiny number of riders can even think about affording the AMA series with the small numbers of rounds that exist.  Having more rounds...harder to afford.  

Take away an opportunity to ride for FUSA racers, in addition to purses and contingency locally?  Again, give a rider more reasons to quit.  If you had a local bike dealership to support you, you certainly wouldn't have that anymore if you couldn't race for anything at a local track.  Matt Kennseth still shows up a local events at Slinger once in a while.  No reason why a fast local expert, that doesn't have an FUSA license, shouldn't keep up with a racer that does have an FUSA license.  The license doesn't make anyone fast.

[Super Dave]

I have noticed that when people are going through school for licensing their on-track time is somewhere around an hour. (at least at BHF)  I don't think that is a heck of a lot of time to get accustomed to riding on a track.   Is there an effective way to get the new riders more track time before they can race without having to mess with the class structure? Maybe require a 2 day school and extra track time?

Well, yeah, I taught the safety school program for CCS at Heartland Park Topeka, Brainerd International Raceway, and Gateway International Raceway at one time.  I tried to interject as much as possible, but there is no way to really do much for a rider in that period of time.

That was one of the focuses of my Visionsports Riding Schools;  getting quality track time and instruction to new racers in addition to on going support.  That's what I did, and that's what CCS did not see value in when they put their request for dates for 2003 in August of 2002 without talking to me (I had rented those dates for four previous years...).

[Super Dave]

So what you're proposing is, essentially, instituting a minimum "qualifying lap time" before someone could be granted a license.

Ok, so how would that be done?  How do you get someone on the track without a racing license and get them "officially" timed?  

If you have a "newbie" class, that's what it's for:  newbies...

Now, how do we have practice?

[Super Dave]

Thanks Baltobuell.  I'll take all the luck I can get and hopefully be able to turn it into skill along the way.   :)  Now if I can just get the track schools to post their 2004 schedules...

Don't look for schedules any time soon.  Schedules are usually similar to previous years, unless someone strong arms a way in and take multiple dates.  

I do not for see Visionsports having any new racer schools for next year.  The problems of late 2002 for the 2003 season pretty much hammered out that pretty quick.  

[MadXX]

Super Dave,  I bought the learning curves at Wegman so I am set for new rider school.  What I am looking for is some more racer specific training after I am licenced so I can progress quickly and safely.  I am budgeting a significant amount of money for instruction next year to accomplish this.  I figure why spend a year on my own learning the slow hard way when someone else can show me the better way through their own experience.

[Super Dave]

I am budgeting a significant amount of money for instruction next year to accomplish this.  I figure why spend a year on my own learning the slow hard way when someone else can show me the better way through their own experience.

I'm with you.  Too much to learn.  And it isn't easy finding the right answers.

So, given the opportunity, is it worth going to a school that limits the number of racing students to eight and an guy like me to instruct?  Cost...probably $400 a person.  Our track, all day.  Eight riders (MAX) and an instructor.  If fewer riders show, it might cost a little more.

I'm looking for input from some of my former students too...

[MadXX]

dave I am going to go to the "What is instruction worth to you" thread in general so I dont hijack this one.

[Super Dave]

Sounds like a plan...

But we could extent this post on for about two decades...LOL!

 ;D

[Eddie#200]

Hey yellow plated sandbagger!

Do you think I could be an amateur again.  ;D

[Super Dave]

LOL!

I'm racing CRA next year...as an amateur.

[ecumike]

So if I have alot of points, but my PI is low, and I throw a possible championship.. would I be able to stay AM agian next year ?

:)