Quick shifter

[smoke]

I currently have a 97 gix 600 if I add a quick shifter will that be leagal?

I will not be on the same bike next year so should I just save my money?

[lokisdog]

Save the money, unless you're running up at the very front of the pack and are looking for .3 - .5 seconds.

A quick shifter won't make that much of a competitive difference on a bike that old when compared to a newer GSXR 600, or even worse a 636 or '03 R6.

They weigh less and make more HP. A shifter won't close that gap.

- Eric
#235

[r6_philly]

Save the money, unless you're running up at the very front of the pack and are looking for .3 - .5 seconds.

A quick shifter won't make that much of a competitive difference on a bike that old when compared to a newer GSXR 600, or even worse a 636 or '03 R6.

They weigh less and make more HP. A shifter won't close that gap.

- Eric
#235

oh yeah? but quick shifter also reduces throttle hand fatigue which leads to arm pumps. for a lot of people anyways

[lokisdog]

Sorry, I don't buy it.

Unless you pin the throttle open against the stop at the beginning of the race and hold it in place the entire race you're going to deal with the issue regardless. You move the throttle numerous times throughout a race, rolling off and on, modulating the throttle as needed, not to mention rolling off during downshifting. Removing the slight blip of a clutchless upshift I don't think is going to make that big of a difference.

If arm pump is a problem you're better off looking at how tight you're holding on and if that's not the issue surgery can help. A quickshifter won't save you from arm pump.

- Eric
 #235

[r6_philly]

Sorry, I don't buy it.

Unless you pin the throttle open against the stop at the beginning of the race and hold it in place the entire race you're going to deal with the issue regardless. You move the throttle numerous times throughout a race, rolling off and on, modulating the throttle as needed, not to mention rolling off during downshifting. Removing the slight blip of a clutchless upshift I don't think is going to make that big of a difference.

If arm pump is a problem you're better off looking at how tight you're holding on and if that's not the issue surgery can help. A quickshifter won't save you from arm pump.

- Eric
 #235

You don't have to buy it. I guess I should be more clear and saying that this is a personal experience. I may be holding on too tight, but no one is perfect.

I have problem shutting the throttle upshifting. On my pesky R6, either you roll back half way, or the gear won't engage, unless you use the throttle. During the second half of a 19 lap race at summit or VIR, I usually get some soreness in my right arm when rolling back the throttle quickly (Both tracks happen to be mostly right turns). You can say that I am holding on wrong all you want, it does not change the fact that my arm gets sore when upshifting. Yes I Can go and try to change the way I hold the bars to reduce the chance that it gets sore, but the symtom is there to tell me that my arm only gets fatigued when rolling off during upshifts. So... whether I get sore or not at all is not the issue, logic dictates that most of MY fatigue happens during upshifts. So having a quick shifter will reduce that fatigue, whether or not the fatigue impact my riding.

Another thing, I have problem when rolling the throttle to the stop because 1: I have small hands 2. my right elbow have limited movement. So it is really hard for me to roll off and on quickly when my arm is tired.

again, whether or not the fatigue should affect me has NOTHING to do with quick shifter will reduce that particular fatigue. You may not see any difference, but I believe the work is being done.

[smoke]

Thanks guys...

1. You are right my bike is old and I'm not at the front of the pack yet.

2.  During the 30 min race my arms are killing me too.

[lokisdog]

One thing to think about if you haven't already is a shorter pull throttle. Yoyodyne makes a nice one.

That would get you less wrist motion during the course of the race in all situations, not just upshifts.

- Eric

 #235

[r6_philly]

One thing to think about if you haven't already is a shorter pull throttle. Yoyodyne makes a nice one.

That would get you less wrist motion during the course of the race in all situations, not just upshifts.

- Eric

 #235

Also a lot easier to highside

[lokisdog]

Naw, it's all about throttle control. Me, my teamates and most everyone else I know racing a 600 has at least a 72 degree throttle, some (myself included) run closer to 63 - 60 degrees. The cool thing about the Yoyodyne model is it is adjustable through a pretty wide range.

I can see it being an issue on a liter bike but on a 600 not a problem. Just need to get the throttle control down.

It's good training for moving up to a larger more powerful bike as well.

- Eric

[Super Dave]

I have problem shutting the throttle upshifting. On my pesky R6, either you roll back half way, or the gear won't engage, unless you use the throttle..... logic dictates that most of MY fatigue happens during upshifts. So having a quick shifter will reduce that fatigue, whether or not the fatigue impact my riding.

Another thing, I have problem when rolling the throttle to the stop because 1: I have small hands 2. my right elbow have limited movement. So it is really hard for me to roll off and on quickly when my arm is tired.

again, whether or not the fatigue should affect me has NOTHING to do with quick shifter will reduce that particular fatigue. You may not see any difference, but I believe the work is being done.

I think you need to look at how you turn the throttle too.  Check your hand position.  Doesn't take a lot of muscle strenth to roll off...there's a spring that will pull the throttle closed.

If you've got to do all that to get the R6 to shift, sounds like you have a mechanical problem, or maybe you've adjusted you're shift lever incorrectly.

As for a quick shifter...when they don't work, you don't make up time.  At the expert level in CCS you don't need it.  I don't believe that they are legal for Sportbike.  Save the money.

Will a newer bike go faster than an older bike?  Not by much.  Mabye if the newer bike made 50 more HP, sure, but in about ten years at a track that remained the same, the 600 expert fastest lap times only dropped about a second and a half for a comperably prepared machine.  

[tzracer]

Many years ago I was at a motocross clinic. Gary Bailey (David's father) was there. He talked about turning the throttle. He said turning the throttle should not involve any elbow movement (up and down), turn the throttle like you would a door knob.

[r6_philly]

I have spent the past year trying to figure out why I have problem rolling full on or off gas. It seem that my wrist have limited movement (so does my elbow) that I can't quite comfortably roll the throttle all the way around. I can only get comfortable holding the bars with my wrist already tilted back, instead of straight, so when I roll on, I don't have much movement to give. Then my forearm gets sore because I have to stretch to twist the throttle. Now that I know what is doing that, I can't quite change it, because thats how I hold the bars, if I change it, my wrist is not quite as strong and not quite as effective otherwise... I have been working on a few things to improve the situation though...

As for new bikes, maybe not for experts, but for novices (the ones that I race with and see) a 03 R6 and a 01 R6 seems to mean about 3-4 seconds... Maybe because the newer bikes are better in a way that its easier for novice/non-experts to get more out of it and go faster. More forgiving and setup initially maybe? I fully understand if people were doing 16's at summit point with 98 GSXR's I should be able to do the same with my bike.

[Super Dave]

I have spent the past year trying to figure out why I have problem rolling full on or off gas....

As for new bikes, maybe not for experts, but for novices (the ones that I race with and see) a 03 R6 and a 01 R6 seems to mean about 3-4 seconds... Maybe because the newer bikes are better in a way that its easier for novice/non-experts to get more out of it and go faster. More forgiving and setup initially maybe? I fully understand if people were doing 16's at summit point with 98 GSXR's I should be able to do the same with my bike.

First, figure out what the problem is or get an ATV thumb throttle.  Do something.  You know that you have a problem.

Next, a amateur is not going to get more out of a new bike that an expert.  In just the same way that you're not going to get more out of the 1999 Honda NSR500 over the 1997 model.  Rossi might get more out of it, buy you or I probably won't. The trick is that the guys that are riding the old stuff are probably riding "cr@ppy" ones and don't have them set up or they are so far out of the ball park that they just blow.  They get on a stocker new model and it isn't all screwed up.

[r6_philly]

First, figure out what the problem is or get an ATV thumb throttle.  Do something.  You know that you have a problem.

Next, a amateur is not going to get more out of a new bike that an expert.  In just the same way that you're not going to get more out of the 1999 Honda NSR500 over the 1997 model.  Rossi might get more out of it, buy you or I probably won't. The trick is that the guys that are riding the old stuff are probably riding "cr@ppy" ones and don't have them set up or they are so far out of the ball park that they just blow.  They get on a stocker new model and it isn't all screwed up.

I changed a few things, and it has helped some, so I guess its getting better.

and you are absolutely right, I am riding a beat up, cr@ppy bike. And it was never set up. I had the forks rebuilt and straightened this weekend at summit, and the suspension guy told me whoever did the forks before did not cut the spacer for my springs, so it was 17mm too long, thats why I had so much problem getting the bike hold a tight line.

And my exhaust is bent, leaking and crushed, so I spent the whole yesterday getting killed on straights. I led every race I entered yesterday from the start to about 2-3 laps in, then get passed on the straight after the field settled. End up a bunch of 4th's. Last race I really wanted to stay up front and pushed too hard and lowsided myself out of the lead.

I am still going to daytona, but I need to make sure my bike works 100%, or there is no need to go. The bike has a lot of potential, and so do I, its just never been together right to bring it out. I was real frustrated yesterday, and I now really really realize that unless I can get things working right, I will never get to the top. So gone is my amateur racing career, and stand a new expert (after daytona). I need to do things better... I know I could have won every race yesterday, but I was not prepared, I could ride, but I did not make my equiptment ridable... lesson well learned.

Hey Dave, I would like to come and work with you sometime, maybe next year, each time I race I gain more respect of things you tell others :)

[Super Dave]

Hey Dave, I would like to come and work with you sometime, maybe next year, each time I race I gain more respect of things you tell others :)

I'm available.  It just comes down to riders making decisions.  Remember me an potential...no such thing...the bike won't go fast if you push it down the hill...and it's up hill anyway.

Bent pipes?  I have stock head pipes.  Don't fret the engine stuff.  As long as it starts and runs ok, it's probably enough.  Suspension?  That's another story.  Got to be better and better, but it won't do anything unless you try something to make it easier to ride.

[r6_philly]

I'm available.  It just comes down to riders making decisions.  Remember me an potential...no such thing...the bike won't go fast if you push it down the hill...and it's up hill anyway.

Bent pipes?  I have stock head pipes.  Don't fret the engine stuff.  As long as it starts and runs ok, it's probably enough.  Suspension?  That's another story.  Got to be better and better, but it won't do anything unless you try something to make it easier to ride.

Getting the forks right was the biggest difference I ever felt in that bike. It was an instant 3 seconds worth after settings were done right. If I had my shock done too then bike would have felt even better.

Engine stuff... I was having trouble passing SV's purely on power (remember summit point have a long long straight and lots of short ones.) I was just having so much trouble keepin on on the exits. Of course the only solution is more corner speed, so I tried to take more in, lean over more, and carry more. Result is dragging everything and things I haven't dragged before, until eventually crashed because I asked the front to do too much. I was happy though, I rode very very well, totally back from my injuries. If I can just get the bike working better, I shall be a happy man in Daytona. If not, I may not be going...