?'s about 2 wave starts and Barber

[BC61]

I did one race weekend last year with CCS at VIR and thier multiple wave starts sucked. They waited until the first wave was headed back towards turn two before sending the second wave. It was such a disadvantage a friend of mine gridded one row in front of me in the second wave, left with the first wave, took the stop and go penalty and still finished second. We ran similar lap times, I only made it up to sixth position. There was no chance of getting to the front with such a delayed start.
Has anything changed with the starts?
I'm thinking of going to Barber but have missed the pre-entry deadline, I don't care about starting from the second wave if given half a chance but last years starts were rediculous.

Any idea of the expected turn out?

[r6_philly]

The idea of 2 wave starts is to not have 50 people jammed into turn 1, and that would probably produce a lot of nasty results.

I agree 2-wave starts are not really fair, but its for the best. I rather see a different way of gridding than entry date to be fair. Although others have routinely won from the back of the second wave in Mid-Atlantic region.

I want to go to barber but also missed the entry deadline. I don't really care about the start, rather, I don't want to drive down there after 14 hours and be told the races are closed.

Anyone know the expected turn out? I really don't want to waste 2 days and not race.

[BC61]

The idea of 2 wave starts is to not have 50 people jammed into turn 1, and that would probably produce a lot of nasty results.

Didn't really want to get into this since I gave my feedback to the race director after that race weekend but...
Two wave starts are first to make sure no one gets run over on the grid, second ease conjestion in turn one not give the first wave a unfair advantage. Something is wrong if the first guy into one from the second wave can't catch the tail end of the first wave until turn seven.

[roadrashroeser]

I believe they will be two wave starts EX first then AM's.

[StuartV666]

Turnout at CCS events has been pretty light this year. 2 wave starts have been pretty uncommon for people in the same race (i.e. 2 waves of Amateurs is rare - 2 waves, one Ex and one Am is not that unusual).

I'd probably call the CCS office and check with them on expected turnout for this one before I got too worked up over this issue.

I don't know if you're an EX or AM, but if you're an EX, then you probably have nothing to worry about at all.

I don't know how CCS has been doing two wave starts this year as I've been lucky enough to be in the first wave of all my races. However, I'd guess they've been flagging them off *fairly* close together 'cause I know I've been passed by Hector pretty early in a race, when I know he came from the 2nd wave and I started at the front of the 1st.

Anyway, don't you mostly run Brand W? Shouldn't your official line be "the faster riders will get to the front, regardless"? :-)

BTW, I totally agree with your statements about how a 2 wave start should work. I can't remember our CCS Starter's name, but he seems to be a good guy. I'd bet he'd be more than willing to talk to you about it before the racing starts and even try to make sure does it like you're talking about (if he doesn't already).

- Stu

[Brad]

Will there be Friday sign-up/registration at Barber? If so, what time does it open and close? Thanks!

[Jkf95]

You can bet on full grids with 3 regions and this track...

If they would use qualifying time during the 2nd practice session for gridding,.. the second wave starts would be more fair...

    

[CCS243]

Our head clerk is planning registration on Friday evening, from 5-7PM.  We will be arriving mid-day to mid afternoon, but since the track is running the practice, we anticipate that we will not be able to handle registration/gate fees until practice closes.

The Ft Worth folks are in Topeka at Heartland Park, Kevin had commented that there was a large number of expert preregistered riders.  I'll try to find out if any classes are closed.

Our SE starter does an excellent job of balancing safety with competive opportunities.  His task or goal is to have the 2nd wave delayed only enough that there is a smooth  flow of riders through the first turn from both waves.

We do and will have longer delays between waves if it is a combined expert and amateur event with density.  Stu has been playing too long at Roebling where we have small  :'( fields and often only have a space break between expert and amateurs with one wave starts.

Its too bad you haven't been back with CCS for a year, hope to see you there, enjoying your racing weekend.  

BTW, the schedule has been modified.  Practice  will start at 8:05 and end at 9:35, with riders meeting at 9:40 on both days.

[BC61]

 His task or goal is to have the 2nd wave delayed only enough that there is a smooth  flow of riders through the first turn from both waves.

Its too bad you haven't been back with CCS for a year, hope to see you there, enjoying your racing weekend.  

Thanks for the input.

Is a smooth flow of riders incluing a huge gap between the first and second wave or a single group of riders buy the time they get out of turn one? If the riders in the second wave can't catch the tail of the first wave buy turn one then there is to much of a delay. As I said the starts were bad last year, just checking if anything has changed.

I'll be at the track on Friday and wondering if it will be worth it to stick around on Saturday. Any idea on how full the grids currently are in the amatuer middle weight classes?

I do plan on running @ VIR in September, ART will you be there?

[CCS243]

OK, just caught Kevin at the KC airport.  All of the pre entries are posted in Ft Worth.  Currently the most popular classes are slightly more than 50% filled.  As usual the Sunday entries are a little less than Saturday (must be some pessimists out there)   :o.  Still lots of opportunities for post entry  ;).

Make the trip, the track looks like it is well worth it, makes me want to get suited up  8).  Too bad I sold my race bike  :P.  

Gee, I feel like our former president, defining things  ;D.

Smooth flow means to us, that as bikes exit the first turn there are no gaps.  The second wave closed on the first wave at the entrance to the first turn, based on timing and density, while avoiding a massive traffic jam.  We are running road races, not hare scrambles  ::).

I'm at all SE and MA events, Bill.  Function depends on what job I am assigned.    

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

     I too am very interested to know if there are any classes that are closed. I didn't pre-enter for this event because I didn't want to be up in the front and I was also counting on the fact that there has not even been close to full grids in any of the HW and UL classes this year. I don't care if I am starting in the back for this event (this season), I just want to be able to race at this facility (maybe hold onto my points leads also  ;)).

     As far as good starting positions go in 2 wave starts, if your serious about finishing well, how hard is it to pre-register? If you start your season out by pre-registering for the first 2 events before you attend the 1st one you will always be gridded in the front. Then just continue to pre-enter for the rest of the year always keeping 1 to 2 events (or more) ahead of the next event on the schedule. It's very easy to do and doesn't cost you any more $ than entering at the track. Though you begin entering events before the season starts, your finished doing it a month or 2 before the season ends, which is nice figuring most people who run into financial situations with racing have it happen between mid and late season.

[BC61]

Pre-entry isn't hard at all. I just found out I'd be there on Friday with Cornerspeed so I was trying to figure if it's worth it to stay over to race on Saturday.