Is Pridmore really a privateer?

[Team_nuclear123]

Guys,

The Erion bike is a full factory bike, and they ran Showa stuff when it worked better, and Ohlins stuff when it worked better. When Jake Won at Brainerd, he had Works ohlins fork internals. Kurtis rides on Ohlins stuff when he is on 600's

Miguel's bike ran OHLINS stuff last year. Trust me. Front and rear.

Honda wholely owns Showa, and Yamaha owns most of Ohlins, but a win is a win.

Kawasaki runs Ohlins, Yamaha does, Suzuki runs both. Go figure.

[Team_nuclear123]

Guys,

The Erion bike is a full factory bike, and they ran Showa stuff when it worked better, and Ohlins stuff when it worked better. When Jake Won at Brainerd, he had Works ohlins fork internals. Kurtis rides on Ohlins stuff when he is on 600's

Miguel's bike ran OHLINS stuff last year. Trust me. Front and rear.

Honda wholely owns Showa, and Yamaha owns most of Ohlins, but a win is a win.

Kawasaki runs Ohlins, Yamaha does, Suzuki runs both. Go figure.

[THE_D.O.C.]

guys, there is a serious echo in here.




















guys, there is a serious echo in here.  ;D

[motomadness]

Which one of Miguel's bikes had Ohlins parts?  Last year Showa debut their new black carbon-nitride coating on Miguel's superbike forks, and I've never seen Ohlins on the American Honda bikes.  I've got a picture somewhere of the Showa shock on Nicky SBK.

The Erion SBK uses Showa parts, because it's a factory bike.  The Erion FX bike uses Ohlins, because it is really not a factory project, it's the Erion Racing companies best parts configured to win races.  Because they are successful with their formula, they get the best suspension tuners and engine parts/mechanics to promote their own longevity.

New definition of privateer:
- one who is broke and has to race on credit or at least place well week-in and week-out just to keep coming to the track.
- one who has an annual budget  under $125,000
- one who takes of a paddock space of no more than 600 sqft, trailer and truck included
- one who has no more than 4 people on the team or assisting him/her at one time
- one who has an A bike, and a B bike that's just for parts
- one who doesn't have Ohlins and Showa coming to your pit to make all of your suspension adjustments for you
- one who gets engine parts by begging, borrowing or using the old stand-by credit cards

[Team_nuclear123]

Sean,

Miguel's 600 ran works Ohlins fork internals and shock. I have that bike in my garage right now, and I can assure you it has Ohlins on it.

The works Showa stuff you see on the superbikes is no better than the works Ohlins parts on the FX bike, so they run the Ohlins stuff.

What is a privateer? A guy that gets NO support from the factory at all. This rules out Corona, Attack, Erion, Bruce, but not most others.

No Limits and Annandale were simply customer bikes that you or anyone can buy. There was NOTHING special or ever A kit on either bike.

In fact, you could send your 954 to HRC and have them build it for about 200k, and it woudl be far more trick that the no limits bike if built to Suzuka spec.

The way you can tell the difference is WORKS or KIT parts. Kit you can buy, Works are not for sale to anyone at any price.Erion is on works parts, bruce has some, but mostly kit, Annandale and No limits have some kit parts and some modified production parts, Attack has works parts, corona has kit parts....

Factory vs non factory.... Works vs kit.

[tcchin]

The Bruce, Erion and No Limits 954's were regular street bikes that anyone could buy. They were even delivered with street bodywork and equipment. Nothing very exotic went into their motors (Ti valves; Crane copies of HRC cams; JE, MTC or Wiseco pistons; Si-bronze seats; locally-sourced porting) and nothing exotic went into their chassis or suspensions (Ohlins Superbike forks and shock, Brembo or Nissin brakes). Granted, everything was expensive, but everything they were running was basically off-the-shelf.

This year, there was a change in the Honda support structure, leveling the playing field between the four factory-support teams: Erion, Bruce, NLMS and Annandale. I know for a fact that NLMS had access to proprietary Showa resources for their 600's, as well as access to HRC parts and documents.

[motomadness]

TN123, how'd you get Miguel's bike?  Was it a hand-me-down from a supported team like Synergy Racing Technologies.  The team I was on last year bought a bike from them, which had a Showa shock. I saw Miguel's 1999 F4 at a Sothby's Auction two years ago.  It had a lot of cool parts, including what I think was a works Showa shock.  I don't remember exactly.

[Team_nuclear123]

It was a gift to a friend of mine. the frame and the tank are different.

Tim, No Limits had acess to the same HRC stuff that ANYONE can buy, however, they did NOT at anytime have access to the HGA parts that are run on every Erion bike, and when Jake rode for Bruce, on that bike.

As far as they Erion and Bruce motors, they are done in house, and do not use Si-Bronze seats or regular ti valves, etc. There is an extensive HGA catalog for that bike, and the seat for example are Berrilium bronze, and the valves are Ti, but have a reduced stem and special head shape.

Annandale, Bruce and No Limits are basically customer teams, you coudl walk up to Kevion Erion and "buy" a team for a year for a few $$$ Thats what Bruce did, and Ann & Dale, and the Curtis's But the HGA catalog was never even seen by Medly or any of the group building the bikes, and the Erion bikes were built FROM them.

[tcchin]

TN123: You are correct about the valve seats - I was typing in haste. Those seats were of course beryllium-bronze seats. (Si-bronze is a bearing and guide material.) However, I think you are mistaken about Ben Curtis' relationship with Kevin Erion. Granted, Ben's team is populated with many of Kevin's 2002 mechanics, but the teams are separate entities. In fact, Bruce relocated his shop to Whittier to further distance himself from Kevin's organization.

As for HGA, all of the 2002 Bruce 600's were HGA bikes, including Alex' bike, but they were just stock F4i's with Ohlins suspensions. The 954's were US street bikes. Also, the valves, pistons, cams, cranks, rods, forks, shocks, subframes, bodywork, swingarms, brakes, exhausts and triple clamps on the 954's were not HGA or HRC parts. I think the foot controls and shock linkages were OTS HRC parts.

People make a big deal about double-secret factory race parts, when they should be giving more credit to the riders who take these Frankenstein machines and make them fly, and to the mechanics and engineers who spend 20-hour days making sure that all the parts they have amassed play together as well as physically possible. As I'm sure you're aware, it takes more than bolt-on parts to create a well-prepared race bike, and it takes more than a well-prepared bike to win races and championships.

[motomadness]

All,

I have to say I've really learned a lot from this thread.  Thanks for chimming in.  

Now if I could just get Super Dave to let me borrow his R6.  Hmmmm   ;D

[Super Dave]

LOL...in your dreams...

But really, it's not particularly special.  It's an R6.  It is cool though.

And Tim, I'll agree with you, it's not the motors.  Bring one of those factory specials to a club race and give it to a local amateur, and they might be "confused" how it works.

But, admittely, in 1993 the HRC black boxes were everywhere for F2's, except in my garage...no money, no contact to get one...on money, so I didn't pursue it too.

Anyway, at one round, some of the top guys, Mike Smith and a couple guys, had to give up their box for ones that the AMA bought at a dealership.  The field did tighten up at the front, noticeably.  Regardless, there IS stuff that occurs at the top that is not in the interest of fair play.  Anyone that races should be able to get something.  So, if Honda's CBR600RR is not on the showroom floor available to buy, the Honda race team shouldn't be allowed to race it.  As it is, rules are kind of a joke, and they only serve to make motorcycle racing somewhat of a family oriented farce.  

[tigerblade]

http://www.amasuperbike.com/2003-Aug/030928a.htm