Who has the right to the corner?

[EX#996]

Opinions please!

Watching Paul in practice and during the races today in corner one, I notice different riders have different ideas as to passing in the corners.

Some, like Paul, will not claim the corner unless they have their bike next to the other riders (at least 3/4 if not more).  Others, just stick a wheel up anywhere on the inside, trusting, or perhaps hoping that their brakes and tires hold.

I asked Paul on the way home about this and when I mentioned a particular race he was in, he was pretty pissed.  He finally let the guy past because he was concerned that if he didn't, the other rider would take them both out.

What is the proper way to claim the corner?   ???

Dawn  

[MightyDuc Racing]

There's nothing wrong with showing a wheel.  Racers must trust that their brakes and tires will work each time they head out onto the track.  We bet our lives on it, in fact.  Showing a wheel is a great way to pressure somebody into making a small mistake and allowing you to pass them.  Cutting somebody off, on the other hand, is not the ticket.  Wasn't there to see what actually happened...but remember, we can't ever doubt our equipment, nor can we base a pass on whether or not our brakes may fail.  If that was the case...there would be no racing.  IMHO

[EX#996]

Paul is leaned into the corner and the other rider fly's up on his rear as Paul is about to put his knee down.  Paul is at the apex and the other person is trying to come underneith him (the other rider got as far as his swingarm twice, the third time Paul let him go).  To me you should have the corner before the apex of it.  One little mistake, and both of them are gone.  

"Showing a wheel"  Where is that on the bike?  At the riders rear, elbow, where?  You guy's don't have eyes in the back of your head and you where full face helmets so...  at what point do you expect the other rider to know that you are there?

Dawn  

[Super_KC124]

Sometimes when you show a wheel, people don't care and slam into you. Then they slam into you again. This makes you mad. Then you make a crazy, around the outside pass to get them back................nevermind :-[ (I did win $65.00 ;D)

[Super_KC124]

Seriously, you should show your wheel at or before the turn in point of the corner. If you wait until anywhere close to the apex, your asking for trouble. When a rider is heading to the apex, there pretty much comitted to the turn. You can make small corrections, but thats about it.

[Steviebee]

dont ask me for opinions on turn 1  :(

[EX#996]

dont ask me for opinions on turn 1  :(

Yeah....

How are you feeling?

Dawn  

[Super Dave]

Ok, this is a pretty open ended question...

It is customary to say that the guy in front has the "right of way".  So, if your wheel is in front it's yours....

But, everything is always changing as you move.  In reality, if you can get your front wheel past someone's foot peg on the inside, there is no way the guy on the inside can get pushed down.  As an expert, it can be almost anything goes.  Contact can and does happen...Tez and I were bouncing off of each other at start finish yesterday.  I really don't mind that, myself, but I've raced where that was the norm;  I understand that some incidental contact won't take me down.

However, it isn't customary to have that in amateur classes.  But if there is a hole to be taken and it can be taken with some reasonable safety, I think it's an open door.

[Jeff]

Sticking a wheel and trusting that the other rider will (a) see you, and (b) yield 18" for you; are calculated risks.

Dan Ortega and I took turns pinching each other off whenever we could last year, and we both knew if we were to pass the other, that it had to be done clean because a wheel simply wouldn't do.  It was done out of fun, and out of defensive racing.  However, it's not a risk without price.

This weekend, I was run over going into turn 1 on the starting lap (first race on the new bike).

I got a pretty good launch, and was around 5th into turn 1.  I tipped it in, aimed for the apex, and a front tire rode directly over my right thigh, under my right arm.  It hit my gas tank and pushed the bike out from under me.  I tumbled length wise across the track into the weeds.  The other rider stayed up.

And when I say "run over", the comment is justified by the massive rubber marks across my leathers and tank in the aforementioned areas.

I was furious when it happened...  I talked to the rider who hit me, and he wasn't any too concerned with it, but wasn't totally arrogant about it.  In the end, I chalked it up to experience, let it go and thanked God that I didn't get hurt.  All things considered, I came out very well.

So back to the question...

In my instance, I totally felt that I owned the line.  I was already bent in, and my knee was on the inside concrete.  I don't know...  I heard some comments that it was my fault, but I don't know how it could be.

In the end, that's racing.  We all make mistakes from time to time and will all fall down.  It was a bad deal, but it's over and done with...  

[Steviebee]

im ok,  gotta do some fiberglass work again !!

I had an incident in T1 too.

Basically i T boned EX #47.  
I got the worst of it, he went on without falling, and with some of my body work stuck on his bike.  From what i can recall, we were going into the turn at a good clip, i was on his left and right on his back tire, somewhere about the 1 marker, he started to bounce his rear tire, he moved to the inside a little bit, then straightened it up.  I figured he was going to go wide because he looked like he was having problems braking.   So i went for the inside.  Next thing i know he turned in reall hard, i figured there was no way we'd both fit were we were going so i slammed the brakes,  and gave him the suzuki enima.

AFterwards he told me that it was "his" fault becuase he got it into neutral and checked up.  I said it was my fault cause i hit him.   I was mad at myself for messing up my day(i was doing good too).

I figure this was a case of bing at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Another thought, i was being a lot more agressive on passing people, that was the only way i could try to stay with the lead AM's.  Well  atleast i only messed my day up and were both ok !  The guy i hit even helped my out by lending me a part for the weekend so i could race !!  I felt real bad about hitting him.

[davegsxrold929r]

There's nothing wrong with showing a wheel.  Racers must trust that their brakes and tires will work each time they head out onto the track.  We bet our lives on it, in fact.  Showing a wheel is a great way to pressure somebody into making a small mistake and allowing you to pass them.  Cutting somebody off, on the other hand, is not the ticket.  Wasn't there to see what actually happened...but remember, we can't ever doubt our equipment, nor can we base a pass on whether or not our brakes may fail.  If that was the case...there would be no racing.  IMHO

i totally agree with this one ,. the more pressure i put on ., the more mistakes they make ., and then comes the safe pass !!!!!!

[Dawn]

i totally agree with this one ,. the more pressure i put on ., the more mistakes they make ., and then comes the safe pass !!!!!!

I have no problem with that, but my question was:  

"Showing a wheel"  Where is that on the bike?  At the riders rear, elbow, where?  You guy's don't have eyes in the back of your head and you where full face helmets so...  at what point do you expect the other rider to know that you are there?

Thanks to Dave and his response:

But, everything is always changing as you move.  In reality, if you can get your front wheel past someone's foot peg on the inside, there is no way the guy on the inside can get pushed down.

I have a better idea.

Dawn   ;)