THE F4 IS GOIN UNDER THE KNIFE...

[MELK-MAN]

turns out it was not something simple like a slipping clutch or a bent shifter fork.. the tranny is ratcheting in & out of gear and the gears need undercut. Chad Wolfe at Kinetic motorsports is sending the motor out to a reputable shop in Clearwater that does lots and lots of trannys. I was mistaken in believing that downshifting without the clutch was not harmful. Gonna change that form now on. Never used the clutch going up but occasionaly to get more leverage on the bars would downshift without the clutch.. 4-5 weeks he tells me..  :(  Hoping to have a bike to race at moroso..

Has anyone experienced this?? im new to racing but im hearing from some of my friends that have been around racing awhile that you can expect to undercut or have tranny work each season or so??

Edit.. Dr. Jeff informs me i can ride the 636 if needed!! yipii.. ;D

[MightyDuc Racing]

I use the clutch to downshift simply because of the chance of that happening.  As far as tranny's being redone each season...thanks to a blown motor, I now have a spare tranny...lol.  Turns out that the transmission in that motor wasn't completely destroyed and now I have a spare just in case. ;)  Sorry to hear about yours, but I'm sure they'll get it ready in time for Moroso (although I bet you're hoping they don't.) ;D

[MELK-MAN]

I use the clutch to downshift simply because of the chance of that happening.  As far as tranny's being redone each season...thanks to a blown motor, I now have a spare tranny...lol.  Turns out that the transmission in that motor wasn't completely destroyed and now I have a spare just in case. ;)  Sorry to hear about yours, but I'm sure they'll get it ready in time for Moroso (although I bet you're hoping they don't.) ;D

Would be nice to race the 636 but honestly right now the f4 is an easier bike to ride..The motor in the 636 is friggin powerfull but thus far untill we get the suspension sorted on the 636 i would rather ride the f4...

[Bsmedic]

Greg,

come on now..... who ya kidding? You're going to do good weather you ride the 636F4 or the stock 636.


LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MELK-MAN]

Greg,

come on now..... who ya kidding? You're going to do good weather you ride the 636F4 or the stock 636.


LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thats a freebee Brian, had that commin I guess... ;D

Cant justify the $800 or so to "undercut"/rebuild new so going to go with a used tranny for about $200. New bike next year i guess..

[MightyDuc Racing]

Come talk to me before you sell the one you have now. ;)

[ninelives59]

PAY THE MONEY AND HAVE THE BOX UNDERCUT AND YOU WONT HAVE A PROBLEM AGAIN.I BUILT THE BOX ON MY GSXR TWO SEASONS AGO AND NEVER HAD A FAILURE AGAIN.

[Super Dave]

Why so many trans problems?  

Were your bikes all street bikes that came to the track?  The only problems I've had were on my F2.  Guess that was the last new Honda I raced.  The two older Honda's I raced (CR750 and CB400F) had trans problems, but they were old and some of the trans problems were related to some other things.  The F2 trans just seemed to be weak.  Maybe Honda hasn't changed much.

Now, is undercutting the trans legal for Supersport?

[ninelives59]

undercutting is supersport legal in both ama and ccs

[Jeff]

If I read the rules correctly, undercutting is NOT legal in SS for CCS...

Greg, I've got 2 F4 trannys.  ONe with a bad 2nd gear, and one that's fine up and down.

Dave, it's the same ole story with honda's straight cut gears.  The damned things round too easily...

[Super Dave]

I read the rules too, but I felt there was some room.  You have to use the OEM gears...doesn't say you can't modify them.  If it doesn't specifically say you can't do it in CCS, you can probably do it.

[ninelives59]

the rules say U have to use stock gears but undercutting is legal there is no performance gain. 8)  

[MELK-MAN]

glad to see some discussion about the undercutting.. that was a worry i have and i will get wtih ccs to make sure it is supersport legal..

SuperDave.. i bought the bike in aug. 01 or so with only 500miles on it. I did about 15,000 miles or so of street riding then took it to the track since march of 2002. it has 30 track days with 5 races including 5 practice days at those races.. 3rd and up the tranny just wont stay in gear under a load but it happend kinda all of a sudden. i had been missing 3rd gear alot lately and it may have been leading to this.

[Jeff]

3rd and up the tranny just wont stay in gear under a load but it happend kinda all of a sudden. i had been missing 3rd gear alot lately and it may have been leading to this.

I know I'm not Super-Dave, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn express last night  ::)

If it's happening in more than one gear, it's not likely to be the gear dogs.  Rather, a shift fork or a worn shift drum.  If I were a betting man (which I am), I'd place a crisp $20 on bent/worn shift forks.

What it sounds like is happening is that the bike is never getting completely into gear 3rd and above.

And as for undercutting being legal or not...  Again, it's intrepretation.  It will reduce spinning mass, and theoretically enhance performance, so it would be arguable.  However, it costs $500 to have you torn down to find out, so stop the discussion about it and do what you will...  If someone wants to be that big of a whiner to have you torn down over gears, let them put up the $$$ to do so...

Last year, there was a particular AM rider who a number of us top 5-10 guys felt was cheating.  We thought about taking a collection to have him torn down, but I then stopped to realize that it didn't matter *THAT* much to me...

[Super Dave]

I'd place a crisp $20 on bent/worn shift forks.

What it sounds like is happening is that the bike is never getting completely into gear 3rd and above.

I'd agree there.  Definitely worth looking at.

Last year, there was a particular AM rider who a number of us top 5-10 guys felt was cheating.  We thought about taking a collection to have him torn down, but I then stopped to realize that it didn't matter *THAT* much to me...

Who, I missed that one, but I'm not racing as an amateur.  Seems as though there is more cheating now than what I remember years ago.  It probably doesn't change the result much, but it might give a benefit to the cheater...makes his life easier.

In 1999, an amateur rider protested a rider.  He wasn't particularly well off, so, he brought down his mortage payment for the tear down, I believe of the heads, etc...$300?  The rider admitted that he was illegal, the protesting rider got his money back, and th illegal rider had no further action taken against him.

The illegal rider's friend's dad gave money to another rider to protest the first protesting rider...full tear down...$500.  The referee deemed the protest as "unfair and in retailiation", however, the race director instructed the referee to do the protest.  The first protester knew that it was done to him because he had no money and there was no way he could ever pay for the further expense, etc.  There was a race the next weekend.  A friend and I told him to shut up, and I told him he could ride my bike the next weekend if need be.  The friend and I tore the motor down to the cases...it was found to be completely legal "...and in great need of a valve job..." in the words of the head tech inspector.

Let the games begin.

[Jeff]

And that was the reason why I didn't fuel the fire to tear him down.

I'm 99.9% sure he was cheating.  Watching him WALK away from the exact same and newer bikes on straights was a dead give away.  And there were many other subtleties(sp?) which had one wonder what was going on in the "hush-hush" environment he kept.

In the end, it didn't mean much.  I felt a little better every time I'd outbrake him and take him through a corner.

Out of respect, I'll not say who it was here...  He's not doing as well now that he's an expert though, so there's some consolation...

[Super Dave]

And I can respec that.  Was he on a Yamaha?  If it's who I might suspect, he's riding an R1 in 600 expert classes this year.  How's that?  I really don't care, but he's actually in the way.  Big confidence problem...someone that really needs to my school...anyway, he hasn't.  He'll just plug away on the other bike and, well, life as a racer will suck for him.