Another class?

[sdiver68]

Wondering what people thought about creating another class, or skill level. (Pro, Expert, Amateur?)

As it is, Expert covers everything from 2nd year riders to semi-factory Pros (and even full facotry pros but most of them pull off in the last lap of a club event).

I have a theory that competing against "the big boys" is tough on the ego, and may cause lots of people to drop or severely curtail their racing.  >:(  :(  Also, money wise, the Pros are earning all the contingencies, making mid-pack Expert expensive as well.  

I'm not advocating 1 position or the other, just asking.  Another possible solution would be to stay out of the Pro classes...but the grids often don't have enough people....

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

     I use to run in the top 5 all the time in the late 90's, except at the combined CCS/NASB events. At those events the regional grids would often have quite a few of the national NASB racers in them, which I always thought was somewhat strange that they could race down in the expert classes (comparitively it seemed to me like allowing the experts to race in the amateur classes). I was always of the understanding that the national series was 'Pro' racing (FUSA currently & NASB previously). Lately it seems as though that is not the case, as a number of people have responded by saying that FUSA is not Pro racing, which I have then asked why FUSA is a seperate entity then and not just CCS national racing? I have yet to get a response to that question, though it should be fairly simple to answer.
     I don't have anything against the national level guys, and I realize that racing against them can be chalked up to good experience, but it's also pretty much a given that they are going to be the ones finishing in the front of the regional classes. In an effort to help cover their costs associated with national racing I can see why they run the regional classes too, between purses and contingencies it can be quite lucrative to do so. But on the other hand most regional racers don't have the kind of sponsership that the national guys do and they could use those winnings even more.
     I can also see CCS's side of this too, with regional racers being able to race 'up' in the FUSA classes, and FUSA racers being able to race 'down' in the regional expert classes, it's a win/win situation for CCS. I don't blame CCS for doing this with some evil intent or something, I feel they are just trying to keep everything profitable so as to provide us all with as much racing as we can handle and help keep fees as stable as possible. But in the same regard that everyone was refering to the fast amateur racers that chose to stay amatuer for another year as "cherry pickers", it somewhat applies here too. Even though many experts are very fast, it's hard to compete against someone who has a seemingly endless supply of tires, race fuel, and spares as is the case with a number of the national racers.
     Should the national racers be allowed to compete in the regional expert classes? Good question.

[Super_KC124]

I think they're a little quick to move riders up to Expert. I guess my idea would be to look at who gets bumped up a little closer. Sometimes a steep learning curve just discourages people and they drop out of racing all together. Just because someone is fast, doesn't mean they're an expert level rider. How safe are they? How smooth? How close does CCS look at this? Is this something that's addressed only durning an appeal?

[Xian_13]

In my most humble opinion...

Expert, Junior, and Am...

The range from Am to Am can be insane... and when you mix an Ex/Am race, the speed differance betweem the top EX and the -2 lap Am is just crazy.  :o

I personally think there should at least be an optional class for the extreme rookies to run, allowing them to get upto speed if they choose. Something like an open class for racers with less then 2?? 3?? 4?? races under their belt.

Even better... now that we have Trans"Thingies", set a time one most be under before being allowed to race in any class they wish (ofcourse have the time based off of cless they wish to run) ;D

[GAMEDIC]

I said from the start that the friday "practice day" before the race weekend would be a good time to get times..and in that take your best times from friday and use that as a qualifying time for the weekends races and yeah i know..what about the people that do not get off work on friday...well about 80% are there on friday...and that is really no argument wither...it would be just as fair to do that as it is for gridding by pre-entry where the folks with the money up front get the good grids....

[YTAK_Racing]

With 3 classes how would CCS be able to get all the races in.?  Who will give up thier class in order for someone else to race.?

If you feel you are very slow, and are a danger, than why race?.  Why not just do a few track days and get more comfortable and the speed will come.

YTAK

[Xian_13]

With 3 classes how would CCS be able to get all the races in.?  Who will give up thier class in order for someone else to race.?

If you feel you are very slow, and are a danger, than why race?.  Why not just do a few track days and get more comfortable and the speed will come.

YTAK

Well CCS could combine one race, in an effort to add the Extreme rookie class... Not hard to do, as they combine classes all the time.

most people don't know they are as slow as they are untill they run thier first race.

What I said about basing it off of time, I was thinking along the lines of the AMA 112% rule... maybe making it the 120% rule for CCS. Not only safer for everyone involved but also giving the rookies a bit of a prospective.

[GAMEDIC]

that would work...and like i said..make friday before the race where the times come from

[Decreasing_Dave]

that would work...and like i said..make friday before the race where the times come from

I disagree with this as a lot of people cannot make it to Friday Practice.  I must work for a living in order to afford Saturday/Sunday racing.  I am not alone.  :-/

Practice is out because it seems that racers don't like to go fast during practice.  For some reason, there are very few doing "hot laps" during their practice sessions.

I dunno ???

[GAMEDIC]

Read my above post and it will explain how that would be fair... no different then CCS giving the "good" grid spots to the people with the most money.... i work too..and i can't afford to pay for my races up front..does that help me when it comes race day and all the people who could afford it get the spots...no it doesn't...same thing with this.. no not everyone can make it friday... and there may be weekends where i can't...but oh well this would be a hell of alot better..or fair than to grid based on who has the most money...at least then it's on your riding skills....

[Decreasing_Dave]

I think they're a little quick to move riders up to Expert. I guess my idea would be to look at who gets bumped up a little closer. Sometimes a steep learning curve just discourages people and they drop out of racing all together. Just because someone is fast, doesn't mean they're an expert level rider. How safe are they? How smooth? How close does CCS look at this? Is this something that's addressed only durning an appeal?

However, I do agree with this.  

I raced 2 race weekends last year.  I did well.  I scored over 500 points and CCS tried to move me to Expert this year.  My appeal letter stated that I wasn't running consistent lap times.  Sometimes there were as much as a 1.5 second variance.  I thought that this would be detrimental to myself as well as the other Experts on the racetrack.  CCS apparently agreed.

The transponders would/should assist with their decision to "upgrade" someone.  If the Amateur is running laptimes within 120% +/- of the Experts on the same track/same day, then that Amateur should be noted for review for a furture upgrade to Expert.  I say future because some people have good track where they run well, better than their own average, and that shouldn't be held against them to be bumped up to Expert.

My $.02


 ;)

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

I said from the start that the friday "practice day" before the race weekend would be a good time to get times..and in that take your best times from friday and use that as a qualifying time for the weekends races and yeah i know..what about the people that do not get off work on friday...well about 80% are there on friday...and that is really no argument wither...it would be just as fair to do that as it is for gridding by pre-entry where the folks with the money up front get the good grids....

     I only race on Sundays (except for twin sprints and events requiring extra travel days), so what would be done in my case? Though the reason I race only on Sunday has changed, I still am going to continue with that plan as of now. The money that I make on Friday at work almost completely pays for my entry fees each weekend, so since I am trying to race 17 events somewhat economically I chose to work Fridays this year.
     If timed qualifying was to be the path that was followed, why not use practice times from that mornings practice session?
     I am somewhat confused about your statements concerning not being able to pre-enter. You do race correct? How does it make someone rich if they pre-enter their races and pay the same amount as you do each weekend? Sometimes it's actually cheaper to pre-enter than post enter.