Toluene as a octane booster

[james-redsv]

I think Im going to give it a try as well, where is the best place to buy the stuff? Someone already said the stuff at home depot isnt as good as pharmaceutical grade.  Mightyduc if I were you I wouldnt try it, your bike might blow up, just kidding. ;D

[MightyDuc Racing]

Got my mixture figured out.  1/2 C12 VP and half 93 octane pump gas. ;D

[Gumby647]

Why not go for the proplene oxide? If you are going to pour stuff in your fuel at least use the good stuff.

[ceesthadees]

I also use .5 VP C12 and .5 pump gas, and a whole lot of experimentation on jetting. I tried straight VP C12 once but it did not seem to make a difference (but it did smell pretty cool ;D).

For all of you chemists, isn't octane rating the gas's ability to detonate within a certain range of pressure and temperature? So, pre-detonation is a caused by low octane gas burning before it should?

If this is true, higher octane would not necessarily help (but could never hurt) and other additives (like leaded gas and oxygenators) would be more effective.

[james-redsv]

Not only does toluene increase octane it puts out more BTU. More BTU=more power. ;D

[Gumby647]

If this is true, higher octane would not necessarily help (but could never hurt) and other additives (like leaded gas and oxygenators) would be more effective.

This isn't true. All else being equal using a higher octane gas than you need will net less power. On a guys R1 we picked up 3hp going from 93 to 87 octane pump gas.

The higher octane gas burns slower and you don't want the stuff still burning when the piston is way on down.. The goal is to use the lowest octane fuel you can without knock.  

[Super Dave]

A.  Is rocket fuel legal? ;D  and B. How the hell do you guys know all this formula stuff for fuel? ??? ;D

Hydrazine is not legal as the rules are written.  And it will mess up some stuff and it's hard to jet for.

[Super Dave]

Not all race gas is high octane anyway, in fact some of the best race gas has a lower octane rating than pump gas. Some examples folow. Note that these are MON ratings, not PON (RON+MON)/2 numbers as most pump gas is rated.

VP MR1 - 90 octane
VP MR9 - 87 octane
VP Ultimate 4 - 92.2 octane

If you want to talk rules...

These fuels are illegal according the the CCS rules as they are written.  You won't see any testing, but they will NOT pass the rules as they are written.  You would have to use maybe VP C11 or C12 to be legal, that's it.  Pump gas from your local station is illegal.

[Super Dave]

Dave, go off on a rant here over octane...  I get frustrated over it...

My $.02 in a few short words.  Your motor must *NEED* a higher level of octane to benefit from it.  Otherwise all you're doing is preventing proper detonation and burn, effectively shorting yourself.

"whoa dude, my bike just flies off this 112 octane jet fuel and it's only $7 an gallon!"...

This is a huge myth and misconception...  Higher octane does not mean higher quality or "better" gas.  It also will NOT clean out a gummed up system...

Nor does it mean that a higher octane fuel is necessarily less powerful.  

A big misconseption is that ALL high octane fuels are not as good as lower octane fuels in some applications.

I'll put Power Mist TO137 (at a MON of 120+...that's pretty much where they stop measuring it, and on another scale, it comes in at 147 octane) against anything.  It is very good.  My R6. GSXR, 6R and other bikes we've used it in:  SV650's etc love it.  And it works great in really low compression applications...stock tractor pulls  (old Massy's, etc.).  It isn't the octane number that makes, or doesn't make, power...it's the chemical composition.

[Super Dave]

Why not go for the proplene oxide? If you are going to pour stuff in your fuel at least use the good stuff.

Again, that would be easy to find with a dielectric test.  And the results on track can be inconsistent.

[Frank_Angel]

If you want to talk rules...

These fuels are illegal according the the CCS rules as they are written.  You won't see any testing, but they will NOT pass the rules as they are written.  You would have to use maybe VP C11 or C12 to be legal, that's it.  Pump gas from your local station is illegal.

Yes, the dielectric is off scale for them, however, SG is within limits. I was using them for illustrative purposes only because of their relatively low octane. We have used VP C12, which is legal.

Out of curiosity, why do you say pump gas is illegal? Most of the one's I've looked at have dielectric well within limits, as well as SG. AMOCO Premium UL, Sunoco, Citgo all appear to be legal.

I agree that the current rules as written could be improved. Some organizations use an approved fuel list which can go a long way to eliminating abuse (coupled with testing). But this is a bit of a silly argument anyway. It's one thing to search for appropriate octane levels to eliminate detonation, and another to search for the right brew to make you go faster. At some level of competition the characteristics of the fuel used may offer an advantage to competitors - but in CCS I doubt that's the case in most instances. Many club level racers can't effectively use the power that their bikes generate in completely stock form, and would be better served by spending their money on riding schools (perhaps like yours ;)).

[Super Dave]

Out of curiosity, why do you say pump gas is illegal? Most of the one's I've looked at have dielectric well within limits, as well as SG. AMOCO Premium UL, Sunoco, Citgo all appear to be legal.

I could be wrong, but CCS's rules use the High Desert Engineering dielectric meter.  As the rules are written, there is a specific paramater for fuels.  Pump gas would show up polar at potentially 3.5 to 5 on the scale because it is unleaded and oxygenated.  I don't have the rules in front of me, but the prameter for dielectric is around 0.1 or something like it.  Regardless, the rules don't allow many fuels, and they are not enforced anyway.

I agree that the current rules as written could be improved. Some organizations use an approved fuel list which can go a long way to eliminating abuse (coupled with testing). But this is a bit of a silly argument anyway. It's one thing to search for appropriate octane levels to eliminate detonation, and another to search for the right brew to make you go faster. At some level of competition the characteristics of the fuel used may offer an advantage to competitors - but in CCS I doubt that's the case in most instances. Many club level racers can't effectively use the power that their bikes generate in completely stock form, and would be better served by spending their money on riding schools (perhaps like yours ;)).

Agreed, why have such rules.  I got the rules changed from 1999 to 2000 where the rules were simple.  I went to the FUSA race at Road America and they told me my fuel was illegal.  I asked to see the rules...more like I showed the guy the rules.  It didn't offer me any advantage at the time, it just happened to be the fuel that I was using.  So, why have silly rules anyway.

As for schooling...yes, the proper school will help.