Ultralight Thunderbike Displacement?

[bruce71198]

The R3 times this weekend at Barber for the top 3 where in the 1:39's about 2 seconds faster than the 390 in MotoAmerica. Keep in mind the MotoAmerica cup bikes have the throttle limited to 80 percent.

[Super Dave]

The R3 times this weekend at Barber for the top 3 where in the 1:39's about 2 seconds faster than the 390 in MotoAmerica. Keep in mind the MotoAmerica cup bikes have the throttle limited to 80 percent.

Thanks, Bruce.  Quite interesting.

[Zaph]

Ok, so, as someone that doesn't have much understanding about how things are on the ground...

How bad is the difference between a Ninja 250 and a Ninja 300 on a race track?  Hoping for data from someone that has raced them both...

At Road America I've had a couple 250's walk away from me on the straights when I was on my well tuned 300 running MR12.  All that while some other 250's I left in the dust like they were scooters.

With CCS, it's less about what  bike you choose, and more about how willing you are to open up the engine and do stuff to it.

I wish we had this up in the midwest: http://specclassracing.com/

[Super Dave]

With CCS, it's less about what  bike you choose, and more about how willing you are to open up the engine and do stuff to it.

Well, a 250 can be opened up.  A 300 can be opened up.  Even a production bike can be developed within WERA production rules. 

I understand the CCS rules as I've been around "a while".  Hoping to hear some more objective data. 

Zaph, if you're getting beat by Ninja 250's that are opened up, why not buy one?  Seem to be quite a few out there being sold off right now like a fire sale because of the impression that the other opportunities offer something...

[Zaph]

Mostly because I hate carburetors.   If I get some motivation this winter I might drop the engine in my 300 and send it off for a build.  That and a little weight loss (both the bike and me) would make me a little more competitive next year.  And some more seat time, this was my first year on the 300.

[Super Dave]

Mostly because I hate carburetors.   If I get some motivation this winter I might drop the engine in my 300 and send it off for a build.  That and a little weight loss (both the bike and me) would make me a little more competitive next year.  And some more seat time, this was my first year on the 300.

:) 

I like carbs.  Jets don't need user updates or batteries to charge. 

Weight...the on going challenge for everyone.  Even a 115 pounder LOL!

Never been on a 300/250 production race bike.  But I did race a TZ250, a couple RS125's, and an MZ Scorpion (and a bunch of other stuff).  I think the Scorpion made more power than even the KTM (42HP?) as it should with 660cc's, but it weighed more than my SV1000 race bike.  Contingency made it attractive. 

[Capitalview]

Zaph, if you're getting beat by Ninja 250's that are opened up, why not buy one?  Seem to be quite a few out there being sold off right now like a fire sale because of the impression that the other opportunities offer something...

What Zaph is referring to is that some of these "250s" exceed the displacement limits of the class.  Of course, if you protest them you are then called out as a douche bag for being butt hurt you didn't win.  Yet the person(s) who is(are) cheating isn't called a douche. 

Nate Minster can pass me on my R3 down the front straight with his RC390 pretty easily.  He doesn't fly by me though.  He should pass me too because he weighs 100 lbs less than me.  There is no way a built 250 though, with a person of similar weight, should fly by me like they are on a SV650.  Yes, they should pass me, but not like I am standing still.

I haven't had the chance to protest one of these bikes though.  If/when I do, I will.

[Super Dave]

Yet the person(s) who is(are) cheating isn't called a douche. 

Yeah, but that's because there are a lot of douches in racing.  Same goes for the rest of the people around us too... 

Tech should have a "whistler" or something a long that line that can measure displacement pretty easy.  Should only require airbox removal to get to the plugs.  This was tech stuff from the 90's.

[Zaph]

Yeah we have known cheaters.  But I'm pretty sure we also have some guys with 250's that are legal in ULTB but still making more hp than 300's. The thing is that ULTB is so damn open the only basic rule is CC limits.  So you got guys with 250 cc's but high comp pistions, cams, ported and polished heads, low friction bearings, and a whole bunch of other stuff making mega hp.


There are big bore kits, but I suspect most cheating happens in 500SS when people bring in their machines that are only legal for ULTB GP and GT classes.


Personally, I wish ULTB at least had supersport rules or better yet full spec racing rules like that series I linked in Florida.  But until then, I will likely give up 500SS so I can make my bike more competitive in ULTB, GTUL and Moto3.  My bike is still sucking air through the garbage OEM airbox.  Just pod filters alone are good for 3 hp.

[Super Dave]

My bike is still sucking air through the garbage OEM airbox.  Just pod filters alone are good for 3 hp.

Seriously?  That sounds like stuff from 1982 on a 1000.  I know that when Bimota used the FZR1000 engine in the Dieci, they couldn't get the same HP as the FZR1000 in the FZR1000 chassis;  because even by the early 90's the damn OEM airboxes were so good, the Bimota airbox and frame made less power. 

But...a 10% gain on hp from pods?!

[Capitalview]

Not surprising since OEMs are running bikes really lean now to pass emissions. 

By the way, I have found most people who race to be really nice people.  By far the nice outweigh the douches.

[bruce71198]

Is there such thing as a nice douche?