More Lightweight discussion

[LWT Racer]

Pistons -  $500 (from CP)
Cams - $900 (webb)
Heads - $500 (or $1500 if you go for super crazy bling heads)
Tbodies - $350
Rods - ~$500 carrillo

Building motor yourself saves a lot of $$$$ as does finding used parts.  I personally wouldn't buy any of that stuff new.

[Gino230]

SO will the 1st gen be faster than the second gen because of the flatslides? Where do you get the throttle bodies or do you just bore them?

I seem to remember my brother having an aftermarket oil cooler to fix crank issues....

What about engine management? Are you running a power commander or something else?

[Capitalview]

Pistons -  $500 (from CP)
Cams - $900 (webb)
Heads - $500 (or $1500 if you go for super crazy bling heads)
Tbodies - $350
Rods - ~$500 carrillo

Building motor yourself saves a lot of $$$$ as does finding used parts.  I personally wouldn't buy any of that stuff new.

Who is doing porting work for $500!  I am serious too.  I need to know!  I am guessing that does not include new valves and springs.  Which, since I think mine are original, should be replaced.

$350 if you have a second gen for TBs.  Min $600, if you can find them used, for flatslides.

Are heavy duty spring and new head bolts required?

I have been looking for high comp pistons and used rods, but no luck.

As for 2nd gen vs 1st gen, that is a can of worms.  Some like the fuel injection, some don't.  The 1st gen does have a better crank, but not a huge issue.

[jfboothe]

This was one reason I was looking at a air-cooled 800 Ducati. I really don't know anything about the SV.

SO will the 1st gen be faster than the second gen because of the flatslides? Where do you get the throttle bodies or do you just bore them?

I seem to remember my brother having an aftermarket oil cooler to fix crank issues....

What about engine management? Are you running a power commander or something else?

[MACOP1104]

How about build a good superstock bike and learn how to ride the piss out of it.   An SV superbike motor is going to cost a bunch of cash.  Use the money for tires and track time.   

SVs are very easy to work on.   Put gas in it and let it rip..

[MACOP1104]

Who is doing porting work for $500!  I am serious too.  I need to know!  I am guessing that does not include new valves and springs.  Which, since I think mine are original, should be replaced.

$350 if you have a second gen for TBs.  Min $600, if you can find them used, for flatslides.

Are heavy duty spring and new head bolts required?

I have been looking for high comp pistons and used rods, but no luck.

As for 2nd gen vs 1st gen, that is a can of worms.  Some like the fuel injection, some don't.  The 1st gen does have a better crank, but not a huge issue.

My SV superbike makes 88-90hp on U4.4 depending on the day and the dyno.   It has stock valves and a superstock valve job done by Ben Fox using a Rottler valve seat cutter.   Only thing it has is HD valve springs from TWF.   SV heads are good for 90hp without porting.   

[Farmboy]

If you like the 800, get it.


horsepower horsepower horsepower


It's all anyone ever seems to talk about. Spend all your money up front on the best suspension and set-up you can get. If you still have some money left, buy lighter wheels and lighten the bike as much as you can. If you still have yet more money, congratulations, you are a baller, upgrade the brakes (although the stock ones are absolutely adequate at this point, right down to the m/c.) 


Then, hopefully, you have left yourself some money to actually race. Go race. Have fun. Learn how to go faster. Don't worry about horsepower. The whole point of air-cooled 2v Ducs is torque, torque which is consistent and eminently accessible over a wide rev range, and which is greater than that of a liquid cooled 4v. Torque is different than hp, but can be quite effective when utilized correctly. Again, don't worry about horsepower.


Should you decide you want to go to Daytona, you can always work on the motor later. Until then, again, have fun.


Edit: just went back and saw that you were talking to the guys at Ducati Indy. Great guys with a lot of knowledge. Another plus should you decide on the M.

[Grasshopper]

If you like the 800, get it.


horsepower horsepower horsepower


It's all anyone ever seems to talk about. Spend all your money up front on the best suspension and set-up you can get. If you still have some money left, buy lighter wheels and lighten the bike as much as you can. If you still have yet more money, congratulations, you are a baller, upgrade the brakes (although the stock ones are absolutely adequate at this point, right down to the m/c.) 


Then, hopefully, you have left yourself some money to actually race. Go race. Have fun. Learn how to go faster. Don't worry about horsepower. The whole point of air-cooled 2v Ducs is torque, torque which is consistent and eminently accessible over a wide rev range, and which is greater than that of a liquid cooled 4v. Torque is different than hp, but can be quite effective when utilized correctly. Again, don't worry about horsepower.


Should you decide you want to go to Daytona, you can always work on the motor later. Until then, again, have fun.


Edit: just went back and saw that you were talking to the guys at Ducati Indy. Great guys with a lot of knowledge. Another plus should you decide on the M.

Yellow plates next year Jimbo? :)

[Farmboy]

Yellow plates next year Jimbo? :)

Nope. I re-upped at the last round. Kinda like sandbagging in reverse. Keeping the fires burning. :)

[cooker1]

I ran against a couple Ducs this season in SS and the other classes I ran , 749s maybe and one that I have no idea he was fast on the straight but parkin it in the corners ! To me just seems like the ducati just does not handle like the SV they have a motor but in the Ltwt class that is all they have on the SV ! I run a pretty much stock 01 SV with just the usual mods on it ! IMHO the SV is the bike to run is pretty inexpensive ( I am just a poor workin guy ) some of the offs I have had would have finished my season paying for a Ducati !!!!!!!!

[Farmboy]

I ran against a couple Ducs this season in SS and the other classes I ran , 749s maybe and one that I have no idea he was fast on the straight but parkin it in the corners ! To me just seems like the ducati just does not handle like the SV they have a motor but in the Ltwt class that is all they have on the SV ! I run a pretty much stock 01 SV with just the usual mods on it ! IMHO the SV is the bike to run is pretty inexpensive ( I am just a poor workin guy ) some of the offs I have had would have finished my season paying for a Ducati !!!!!!!!

Some handle well; others, not so much.

Early M's have very similar geometry to 851/888's and handle very well. Super Sports, not so much, mostly due to the non-linkage cantilever swing arm rear end, although there have been riders who have gone quite fast on these. I'v heard that the newest Monsters (air-cooled, not that ugly new water-cooled pig) handle well too.

Stock geometry 749's and 748's are not ideal, being much too difficult to turn in. With the right front end and suspension, a different story.

Motor-wise, the trade-off on the Duc is that it is much less stressed when built than a comparably powered SV. Whereas a 90+ HP Suzook will need to be fully built with a very expensive crank (among other things) and will likely require a full rebuild every season (if not more often), a Ducati -particularly a DS - can easily make the same power with a stock bottom end and will last multiple seasons easily. Many doubt this, but the secret is to not overrev them - it makes no sense to do so anyway, as they stop making power around 8k.


My '96 944 motor still has a box-stock bottom end, and it had 7k street miles when I got it in '04. I put a 944 kit on it in '05; then, we put new pistons in in '11 when we went to freshen it up, but we found it didn't even need them when we opened the motor, although we put 'em in anyway as they were a bit higher compression. We've seen multiple early 2v motors with 70-80k miles which still run great at the shop that helps me out. These motors have been around in one form or another since the 70's, don't forget.


My '08 DS motor makes 95 RWHP with stock displacement (albeit hi-comp) pistons, cams, os intake valves, a Power Commander, and a pipe, all on the stock bottom, too. That motor is hellaciously powerful, although it's currently in a terrible chassis (S2R). A fellow racer had a wrist pin seize on his DS and actually bend the rod, but when they tore the motor down, the crank and cases were absolutely perfect - Ducs have hella strong bottom ends. Obviously, it helps to know about what to do with the wrist pins...

Trade-offs. I'm always shocked and a bit dismayed by how few Ducs are around, in the MW at least. They really are underrated and (IMO) mistakenly dismissed. When you factor in how much an SV costs to build properly initially and maintain over the long run, Ducatis can absolutely be competitive financially, as well as on the track.


Regardless, it's not the bike that bends, it's the rider. There is no spoon. 

[Grasshopper]

Jim, An SV motor having to be rebuilt every year is nonsense. IT's not a freakin 2 stroke. Check valve clearances, check compression, perform leak down test. If it all passes race the motherf@cker.

Some handle well; others, not so much.

Early M's have very similar geometry to 851/888's and handle very well. Super Sports, not so much, mostly due to the non-linkage cantilever swing arm rear end, although there have been riders who have gone quite fast on these. I'v heard that the newest Monsters (air-cooled, not that ugly new water-cooled pig) handle well too.

Stock geometry 749's and 748's are not ideal, being much too difficult to turn in. With the right front end and suspension, a different story.

Motor-wise, the trade-off on the Duc is that it is much less stressed when built than a comparably powered SV. Whereas a 90+ HP Suzook will need to be fully built with a very expensive crank (among other things) and will likely require a full rebuild every season (if not more often), a Ducati -particularly a DS - can easily make the same power with a stock bottom end and will last multiple seasons easily. Many doubt this, but the secret is to not overrev them - it makes no sense to do so anyway, as they stop making power around 8k.


My '96 944 motor still has a box-stock bottom end, and it had 7k street miles when I got it in '04. I put a 944 kit on it in '05; then, we put new pistons in in '11 when we went to freshen it up, but we found it didn't even need them when we opened the motor, although we put 'em in anyway as they were a bit higher compression. We've seen multiple early 2v motors with 70-80k miles which still run great at the shop that helps me out. These motors have been around in one form or another since the 70's, don't forget.


My '08 DS motor makes 95 RWHP with stock displacement (albeit hi-comp) pistons, cams, os intake valves, a Power Commander, and a pipe, all on the stock bottom, too. That motor is hellaciously powerful, although it's currently in a terrible chassis (S2R). A fellow racer had a wrist pin seize on his DS and actually bend the rod, but when they tore the motor down, the crank and cases were absolutely perfect - Ducs have hella strong bottom ends. Obviously, it helps to know about what to do with the wrist pins...

Trade-offs. I'm always shocked and a bit dismayed by how few Ducs are around, in the MW at least. They really are underrated and (IMO) mistakenly dismissed. When you factor in how much an SV costs to build properly initially and maintain over the long run, Ducatis can absolutely be competitive financially, as well as on the track.


Regardless, it's not the bike that bends, it's the rider. There is no spoon.