More Lightweight discussion

[LWT Racer]

A mild SV SBK motor can go seasons 4+ seasons with out rebuild no problem.

[apriliaman]

Doesn't John have over 10k racing miles on his stock SV engine.I know another rider that had over 30k mix street and racing till it needed a rebuild.

[Farmboy]

Jim, An SV motor having to be rebuilt every year is nonsense. IT's not a freakin 2 stroke. Check valve clearances, check compression, perform leak down test. If it all passes race the motherf@cker.

Nick, of course, an absolute statement that EVERY SV motor would HAVE to be rebuilt every year would be utter nonsense. However, I'll still stand by the notion that when it comes to building the near, or over 100hp motors that everyone wants nowadays, a Duc makes a better, more economical, and more reliable platform. Ducs were designed from the get-go to handle the larger torque output resulting from (relatively, nowadays) large displacement and 2 valve heads. The cases and crank are much beefier than those on the SV, and can more easily handle higher power, particularly in stock form.

Hey man, you know me. All I'm saying is what I witness, and I've been on the sidelines watching and helping out for the last 3 years. And, from what I'm seeing, the mega-built SVs, at least here in the MW, certainly seem require much more in terms of maintenance and /or repair than 2v Ducs. I'm not saying that they are bad bikes, I'm only speaking up for the (here in the MW, again, underrepresented) Ducatis.

You've seen my M through the years, and you've seen me ride it. I've been in that motor once since I initially freshened it up, and, as stated, it didn't even need it. Tell me, how many SV motors have you had to rebuild since we've known each other??

[Farmboy]

Also, in response to Swiest and Apriliaman, yes, stock SV motors are very reliable. But, not too many guys are content or talented enough to run them for long.


The whole point of contention in these threads generally tends to be about how unfair an advantage the Ducatis have because of the HP#s they can generate, and how unfair it is that only guys with deep pockets can have them. All I'm saying is that to generate #'s which are comparable to those of the most powerful SV's, the Duc is still a (relatively) inexpensive and (very) reliable alternative. And , of course, if you want to go to crazy town and build a 115-120hp motor, then the Duc is the clear choice (of course, a Buell can make these numbers easily as well, but, like the Ducs, they are pretty underrepresented nowadays.)


The SV is still going to be the class standard for many viable reasons, and is overall a better choice at many tracks, and for many riders. They can be had dirt cheap, there is a wealth of knowledge, parts, and resources for them, and they are very capable bikes, obviously. My contributions to these threads are always meant to merely point out that a judiciously and properly built Ducati can be an economical and competitive alternative to the SV. Too many riders immediately dismiss the Ducs as anything but.

[LWT Racer]

85hp Sv can run for years and only cost $2k to build. That's 15hp over stock. 

I'm asking because I don't know, how much would it cost to put a ducati 10-15hp over stock? What mods would it take?

Pump HP out of either motor it's going to
A: cost a fck ton to build, B: cost a fck ton in maintenance or C: A&B

But the ducati is going to cost more to build right?

[jfboothe]

85hp Sv can run for years and only cost $2k to build. That's 15hp over stock. 

I'm asking because I don't know, how much would it cost to put a ducati 10-15hp over stock? What mods would it take?

Pump HP out of either motor it's going to
A: cost a fck ton to build, B: cost a fck ton in maintenance or C: A&B

But the ducati is going to cost more to build right?

I thought the point was that with the Ducatis you don't really have to "build" them to make 85hp. I get that out of a stock DS1100 in my Hyper and it has 25,000 miles on it. Quite a few track days and the valves are still in spec but will probably need adjusting this year. My 749s is also all stock puts out probably 100hp and has 17000 miles. Just now adjusting valves and that poor bike has been abused on the track for the last 5-6000 miles. But I do agree to get 10-15 more hp out a Ducati does cost more.

I ran against a couple Ducs this season in SS and the other classes I ran , 749s maybe and one that I have no idea he was fast on the straight but parkin it in the corners ! To me just seems like the ducati just does not handle like the SV they have a motor but in the Ltwt class that is all they have on the SV ! I run a pretty much stock 01 SV with just the usual mods on it !

Dave - You might be talking about me on my 749s (Thunderbike class). As far as parking it in the corners, that would be the rider...not the bike.  ::) What can I say, it was my first year racing. I'll try and get into the corners a little faster this year. Thanks for the video you gave me. I learned a lot being able to watch myself and congratulations on moving up to expert for next year. 

IMHO the SV is the bike to run is pretty inexpensive ( I am just a poor workin guy ) some of the offs I have had would have finished my season paying for a Ducati !!!!!!!!

As far as moderate crash damage. it's not really any different than any other bike. Clip-ons, rearset pieces and fairings.

[LWT Racer]

85hp Ducati is not equal to 85hp SV.  SV will dust the Ducati.

  85hp SV is good match vs 100hp Duc minus top end speed where Ducati takes it.

[Gino230]

I know I've mentioned before, but I used to get 95 out of my 1000DS with supersport only mods. Power commander, slip ons, high flow breather and custom breather box. With the airbox lid intact for SS, it was about 92. That was on the ASRA dyno back in the day. Downside was the bike was heavy, had alot of chassis flex. For SS, the SV was the better choice, except at Daytona.

It's pretty reasonable to get a Duc to 105 HP or so. leave the heads alone and get the 1080 kit from pistal. Full exhaust. Bored throttle bodies should do it. In fact, I sold my old SS motor to a guy who blew up is superbike engine....he bolted it into his chassis, big throttle bodies and full exhaust, power commander and C-12 fuel, and it made 104 I think? That engine was stock with 5000 race miles. Valve adjustments only.

To get over 105, you have to spend money. You need cams, super duper porting on the heads, bigger valves, 100MM (or bigger) big bore kit. Also you need to start with a more modern set of cases, hypermotard style with the top ignition pickup.

HP isn't everything with these bikes, unless it's a Paul Smart, the handling is lacking. DS / SS chassis has alot of flex. There are plenty of handling quirks. They are heavy. It's a commitment of sorts to get them to a high level.

My brother had an SV superbike, I seem to remember the crank being the weak spot? He had an aftermarket oil cooler to combat some of these issues but he still broke a couple, and that was under 100HP. One of the big HP SV's went bang at Homestead last weekend. That bike was making over 100. The ducs generally don't blow up unless they are overrevved or crashed and they run on their side. Or you do a cheapo rebuild and don't replace the crank bearings (they're expensive). I've only seen a few sets of broken cases on the air cooled ducs, and it was one of the above issues.

Anyway it looks like we'll be stuck with the old SV vs Ducati debate for at least another year...rules committee has spoken. Shoot I was thinking the 250 vs 300 vs 390 debate was going to take over!

[LWT Racer]

You can have 100hp+ SV last but you need to dump $10k into motor. 

The stock Crank does snap past 85 hp easily.  Ligthen and balance crank can help.  Putting BDK helps the most, basically gets rid of all weight at end of the crank where it snaps.  The billet crank is way to go if you want over 90hp on SV, but thats $2500.  But strengthened crank just leads to the next weak spot exposed.  Valves/springs, Cases if you're second gen, transmission....

[jfboothe]

85hp Ducati is not equal to 85hp SV.  SV will dust the Ducati.

  85hp SV is good match vs 100hp Duc minus top end speed where Ducati takes it.

Well I guess that takes care of the idea of a 796 Monster...

[apriliaman]

Parts are more expensive for the Ducati vs Suzuki.Get 2 pistons for the SV and 2 for the Ducati,or cams.You will see the Ducati parts are alot more.If you can believe it 2 Ducati racing aftermarket pistons cost more then 4 for my Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX and they are close in size.

[cooker1]

Not really you parking it the 1000 guy is the one almost ran him over a few times ! I got some goodies for the SV this season so the bigger bikes I hope will have a little problem pulling so much on me !