2015 ULTB and GTUL rules proposal sent to CCS

[LWT Racer]

other wise it really boils down to who has the most $$.

Sadly that is racing......    sucks but it's the truth.   (obviously it's not all about $$$)

[CHIRINOM]

Sadly that is racing......    sucks but it's the truth.   (obviously it's not all about $$$)

I would like to agree but there are several super stock classes for the larger machines. To me it makes sense to have super stock classes for the lighter weight machines as these are usually where people start off. They consume less tires and the tires are much less expensive. If tires were not a factor, I would be running 1000 super stock all day long.

Other clubs are successfully running the light weight Super Stock classes. WERA has been successfully running E super stock (250cc stock class) for several years and Jennings has stock 250 Endurance races every year in November.

I am a Florida rider. I do not know about you but I would much rather race at my home tracks then spend 16 hours drive time and $300 in fuel every month.

In addition we have over 20 riders who support the idea of keeping their machines stock.  If the racers running spec were willing to throw the $$ and time into their engines, we would not be having this conversation.

[apriliaman]

The AMA Harley XR1200 class is about the closest spec racing you will get.Yet it is still the same 5 riders in the front of the race.

[LWT Racer]

Well CCS SS is not very stock and still takes $$$ to have top bike.  The 250's not near as much but anything faster it does.

[CHIRINOM]

Well CCS SS is not very stock and still takes $$$ to have top bike.  The 250's not near as much but anything faster it does.

This is true and precisely my point. "Not very stock" is still much much better than wide open and "near as much" is much better than all you can spend. Which is how it is now. The proposal factors in both mind sets. Build it until it blows and Keep it simple and cheap.  Both would have more opportunity under this structure as they will both be able to race up a class. GTUL to ULTB and ULTB to GTL, LWGP ect....

As I am sure you have determined I am of the simple economical mind set. Take a moment and imagine a class ((without taking displacement or machine into consideration)), where you can show up knowing that you are on exactly the machine that is capable of winning that race every time and be sure that you will be racing for position, whether racing for 1st or 10th. Now imagine that the entire weekend INCLUDING TIRES cost less than $250. Sound pretty awesome? Think that that may attract new riders and grids of 20+?

You bet. We have proven it.

[MACOP1104]

Not sure why CCS wouldn't allow the 300s and the KTM in.   Then again, CCS does kooky stuff with their rules.   For 2015, WERA is letting in the Kawi and Honda 300s, the 321 Yamaha, and the KTM 390 single in E superstock.  The 250s will be in the same race but will be scored on their own.   

[Gino230]

GTUL is a FL only class, right? I can't seem to find it in the Rulebook. So what you're proposing is modifying the UL TB rules to supersport mods only except for the 250 which can be bumped to 300?

Is the Ninja 250 still in production or did they ditch it for the 300?

The problem as I see it is two-fold- the FL riders are running a "class within a class" where there is a gentleman's agreement to run SS rules. This has caused some drama when people from outside the facebook circle show up. Second is the 500 class has not been added to the FL schedule, so the newer bikes will not have a place to race as it stands.

I feel for the 250 riders, I think a spec class is a great idea for entry level racing. Unfortunately, we are now seeing the problem with a spec class, you have to buy the spec bike, whatever that may be, and if the manufacturer upgrades the machinery, well, it's no longer spec :(

[CHIRINOM]

GTUL is a FL only class, right? I can't seem to find it in the Rulebook. So what you're proposing is modifying the UL TB rules to supersport mods only except for the 250 which can be bumped to 300?

Is the Ninja 250 still in production or did they ditch it for the 300?

The problem as I see it is two-fold- the FL riders are running a "class within a class" where there is a gentleman's agreement to run SS rules. This has caused some drama when people from outside the facebook circle show up. Second is the 500 class has not been added to the FL schedule, so the newer bikes will not have a place to race as it stands.

I feel for the 250 riders, I think a spec class is a great idea for entry level racing. Unfortunately, we are now seeing the problem with a spec class, you have to buy the spec bike, whatever that may be, and if the manufacturer upgrades the machinery, well, it's no longer spec :(

GTUL was implemented nation wide this year and run at the ROC. I am not asking to revise ULTB. ULTB can stay as is, which allows the 300s and mods... I am asking to revise one class, GTUL (the class which originated in FL) to SS rules with the exception that the 250 be allowed to bump up to 300. That way our 20 +/- riders can stay in the mix without having to invest huge $$ and anyone looking to run a new 300 can also participate without spending big $$ to be competitive. The only expense to the 250 rider would be the same as it would be to freshen a motor for the season.

There has not been any drama with people whom are out of the circle. We have had a couple of issues with only a couple of teams who are perfectly aware of what we are doing, running out side of the agreement. My take on the matter is that they want an easy win as they are racing against stock 250's. Due to this, we run a class within a class. It sure would be cool to have the backing of our race organizer.

The 250s last year was 2012. Not a vintage bike by any means. When was the SV last built?

Spec is the ideal but SS would at least be something that a rider without a big budget could manage. The economical class should be less about machinery and technology and more about the rider and participation. I could care less if it was a 250 or a 2500. 250 would make more sense economy wise.

I have been racing 20 years. Hardly a begginer. I raced GP bikes and know what it takes to be competitive on one. I have a ton more obligations than I did when I started racing at 16 years old but I would still like an opportunity to race. Racing the 250 amongst the spec riders has allowed me to show up with a bike that has not been touched in over 1 month, fill it with fuel and win the the race against others who have done the same.

The 500 is another option. I would love to see the 500ss implemented in Florida. I would consider running it. Here is a question though.. Why is there a 500ss class when I have only seen 2 500s on the race track and why is there not a ss class for the 250 / 300 when we have the grids already established to justify a 250 / 300 SS class?

[MACOP1104]

 "Why is there a 500ss class when I have only seen 2 500s on the race track and why is there not a ss class for the 250 / 300 when we have the grids already established to justify a 250 / 300 SS class?"


Honda offered contingency so they made the 500 class because the CBR500 wouldn't be competitive anywhere else







[/quote]

[ahastings]

The honda contingency is probably useless for the 500 because there probably isnt enough bikes in that class for them to pay anyway, How many times did they have the required 5 riders to pay contingency? And it was only for 8 select events during the year. Not much of a chance of Honda paying any of that money

[bruce71198]

KTM announced today that they will be running an RC Cup series at selected rounds of Moto America. Looks like I may be buying an RC390 soon, but I still don't think they should be allowed in ULTB or GTLU. Leave this class low buck entry level.
I think the KTM can run with the ULWSB and LWSS and be competitive.

[MACOP1104]

KTM announced today that they will be running an RC Cup series at selected rounds of Moto America. Looks like I may be buying an RC390 soon, but I still don't think they should be allowed in ULTB or GTLU. Leave this class low buck entry level.
I think the KTM can run with the ULWSB and LWSS and be competitive.

You think a 44hp (at the crank) single can hang with an SV650 sbk or a Duc 800 sbk?   How about the 1100cc air cooled LWSS legal bikes?    That's pretty funny...   and all in the name of preserving the 250s that have been outclassed by their 300cc brothers...