superbike/superstock question

[jimfowler]

with wera i race a 98 cbr600 that is technically superbike spec due to the non-oem front brake calipers.  i'd like to come race with ccs but there's about a zero percent chance i can keep up in 600cc superbike class.  however, i would probably fall towards the back of the pack if i were to grid up with superstock.  how flexible is ccs in regards to this?  i know there's no class for my old piece of crap with ccs.  i've already called and spoken with them but failed to ask this question. 

my reasoning is this: the grids for my class in wera are lousy (as in nobody shows up).  i don't give a hoot about points or championships.  i just wanna be on the track with folks who run similar times so i can race.  right now, this is the bike i'm on so i'm trying to make the best of it.

so...any advice is appreciated.  thanks in advance.

- jim

[Capitalview]

What calipers are you running?  Or do you mean rotors?  If it is rotors, as long as they are the same dimensions as the original OEM, they are legal in Supersport in CCS. 

I doubt anyone would protest you running towards the back of the pack.

[jimfowler]

rotors are oem.  calipers are oem brembo from a ducati of similar vintage.  oem calipers on the F3 are single-sided and you can't find a decent pad for 'em.  i'm fairly certain i pose no threat to anybody who's out for points/contingency/bragging rights.  and if i do, i'll gladly forfeit my finishing position.   

[apriliaman]

In supersport you do need DOT race tires.No one will notice your brake calipers.

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

Pretty sure calipers also have to be original equip for supersport. Will anyone really notice? Probably not on a F3.

Not sure about other regions but in the midwest most bikes running middleweight superbike are supersport bikes otjer than they're using slicks in sb and switch back to dot for ss.

Dunno but you may be able to run thunderbike with it. I used to run my f2 in thunderbike. Email Kevin Elliott and ask. Worse he could say is no.

[stofficer2]

I have the same issue with my 99 R6. It has R1 forks on the front and that's it. I am always last in the pack so seeing you possibly joining makes me excited. I might actually have some competition!
If all else fails, I just look at it as, I get more track time than the faster bikes. 

[roadracer162]

To the letter of the law or this case rules, it isn't legal for Supersport much like the vented disc fins.

It is legal in Superbike. And as stated most guys running Superbike are actually Supersport machines.

My suggestion is to run both regardless of your brake caliper. I guarantee your upgrade is not a performance advantage over a new bike. I cannot speak for any other region but my general impression is they(CCS) wants you there racing, even at the back of the pack. They will allow it, and if protested you would be disqualified. But that will still suit you because all you want to do is ride.

It is not legal in Thunderbike. The F2 was allowed even after the cut off year.

[britx303]

Jim,push for thunderbike,as we are on a fairly equal level with the bikes most common in our region running in thunderbike. Talk to kevin Elliot and explain we typically run against the SV's in wera,being as they try to performance match for oddball bikes(ours).Get the approval,and i shall see you at summit??? Im running thunderbike,and if you decide on another class,i will go out even if we both are going to get slaughtered. I know WERA is great because its a no questions asked regarding our older bikes,but this place has been pretty cool too!!!Not that it matters once the visor goes down though.

[jimfowler]

I called and spoke with CCS.  Thunderbike is a no-go, despite the hp similarity between my bike and those in thunderbike.  They informed me that they don't really do any performance indexing and that I'd be looking at middleweight superstock or superbike.  Not a problem.  I think the best course of action for me is to get a set of DOT's on my bike and just show up.  If they don't let me into superstock I'll just run superbike and see what happens.

Thanks for all the replies.  Here's to hoping I see you guys at NJMP and Summit this season.

- Jim

[britx303]

Well at this point of the year,you will save on the CCS license too   Well my next weekend will be Summit August 20somethingish,and im going to have to flip a coin on September 6-7,Beaverrun or NJMP........if you make the switch maybe i will skip the haul to Beaver,MAYBE,but my FZR brethren are getting lonely   and the pit comraderie is always great at WERA.

[ahastings]

I wouldnt worry too much about being protested for calipers on a 15 year old bike in a modern bike class. You can also run the heavyweight classes whcih are basically just another 600 class as there are very few actual 750s out there and the grids are usually a little less crazy in those classes

[Eric Kelcher]

CCS policy if a known illegal bike is discovered before the race it will not be allowed to compete.
While it may make no difference on your bike; illegal is not a gray area for us and same penalty applies to a minor as a major rules infraction.

Sorry for the hard line response but we try to treat everyone with same rulebook with no special unwritten exemptions.

[jimfowler]

Thanks for the clarification.  I completely understand the need for hard-and-fast rules that are consistently enforced.  I guess the only question left is will I have anybody running at my pace?  I do about a 1:28 (don't laugh) at Summit Point.  Will there be anybody out there that I can keep up with? 

Thanks.

- Jim

[britx303]

hey jim,on the homepage you can check results as well as laptimes of each race and racer to get a good idea of where youd be.either way,i think you will find someone to latch onto regardless.Make the move and i will see ya in a month,as im definatly out for VIR in 2 weeks

[franikk]

You'll probably be in back with me - I'm a slow guy!

[Derick]

sign up for whatever class you want to race in.  SuperSport only techs the top 3, so if you are outside of that, no one is going to know.  If by any chance someone protests you (which they have to pay for), and you get DQ'd.  But I dont know who would protest anyone at the back of the pack. 

[jethro]

Hi Jim. Do what I did. Had a good EX500 to run w/WERA but no fit in AHRMA and the V fest st Barber is a must event for me.
So I now run an SV650 which fits everywhere. Fast enough to be fun (like your F3). All types and ages of riders, not so serious as the 600 4s. Plus you can get a pretty good 1st gen for a coupla grand. Lotsa SVs in CCS And AHRMA, and usually a good showing with WERA. It's a win-win-win. Sticks and rains, good to go!
Yep, V7 in WERA would be a waste to me with so few entries. Hell, I'll be 62 a and you know you can pass my slow old ass if you get an SV.

[Eric Kelcher]

sign up for whatever class you want to race in.  SuperSport only techs the top 3, so if you are outside of that, no one is going to know.  If by any chance someone protests you (which they have to pay for), and you get DQ'd.  But I dont know who would protest anyone at the back of the pack. 

Derick we try to promote fair racing for all positions and try to insure that all competitors are on legal machines. Yes we do inspect the top 3 with more scrutiny than others but visual inspections are randomly done to the whole field and last place can be disqualified.

FYI We do not allow a rider that is illegal to compete and DQ themselves afterwards due to the competitors that he/she are racing against don't know they are not racing for position.

Other organizations may allow such tactics for revenue generation (or other??) but it is not something we condone allow or look other way on. 

[britx303]

Hi Jim. Do what I did. Had a good EX500 to run w/WERA but no fit in AHRMA and the V fest st Barber is a must event for me.
So I now run an SV650 which fits everywhere. Fast enough to be fun (like your F3). All types and ages of riders, not so serious as the 600 4s. Plus you can get a pretty good 1st gen for a coupla grand. Lotsa SVs in CCS And AHRMA, and usually a good showing with WERA. It's a win-win-win. Sticks and rains, good to go!
Yep, V7 in WERA would be a waste to me with so few entries. Hell, I'll be 62 a and you know you can pass my slow old ass if you get an SV.

I run in V7 with Jim,and i did mention an SV too. Im pondering a switch to one,because like you said,V7 has a terribly small turnout,and the SV is comparable to our 20 something year old 600 i4's,powerwise.And they seem to fit everwhere,with everyone.I am not sure if i can let go of my fzr,but an SV gets more tempting everytime im at the track

[apriliaman]

Eric I guess you haven't been at the races.I never saw a bike go on pit road and then told they cannot race.Only 1 time a rider had slicks in SS then was told.But I have seen alot say well i'm in the back anyway it don't matter.I know of some bikes that don't fit 1 or 2 classes class but is still raced and no one knows except for me maybe.

[MELK-MAN]

Eric I guess you haven't been at the races.I never saw a bike go on pit road and then told they cannot race.Only 1 time a rider had slicks in SS then was told.But I have seen alot say well i'm in the back anyway it don't matter.I know of some bikes that don't fit 1 or 2 classes class but is still raced and no one knows except for me maybe.

cheaters suck, and it should not be allowed to go on if it's a significant infraction.. You should say something to someone

[black89]

Club racing rules seem to be slicks are sbk, dot's are ss, especially with the brembo masters allowed. Tech doesn't know what bikes came with nickel plated brembo calipers anymore and they don't measure rotors. It's up to the people competing to go by the rules or not to.

[MELK-MAN]

Club racing rules seem to be slicks are sbk, dot's are ss, especially with the brembo masters allowed. Tech doesn't know what bikes came with nickel plated brembo calipers anymore and they don't measure rotors. It's up to the people competing to go by the rules or not to.

it just depends.. some regions have some tech officials that know a little somethin about stuff.. FL region is one example. But yes, riders sadly need to "police" themselves to some degree at times.

[JNSRacing]

It's been a couple of years since I read the CCS rule book in full, so my apologies if this question is dumb, but what happened to "Classic"? Is it gone? Not enough bikes to run it?

Jim, I'm in the same boat as you... I've been racing my F2 in MCRA, but my class is going away next season, and the only choice for me next year, is AM/EX GT, which is basically an open superbike class - everything goes. As you can imagine, there's no way for me to be remotely competitive on the F2 among the best machines on offer, though it is a very well-built machine, and setup properly.

If I were to keep it, my plan would be to hit some WERA V7 races, and maybe some CMRA Classic and CCS Classic events, but the fact that nobody has brought that class up, tells me that it's no longer in existence?

Anyway, so now I'm trying to sell this V7 bike, as I'm currently trying to buy something that will be competitive in the GT class.
I'm sad to read what you said about the V7 grids being so bare... guess it's a good thing I'm moving on to a new machine, huh?  ::)

[Capitalview]

It's been a couple of years since I read the CCS rule book in full, so my apologies if this question is dumb, but what happened to "Classic"? Is it gone? Not enough bikes to run it?

Jim, I'm in the same boat as you... I've been racing my F2 in MCRA, but my class is going away next season, and the only choice for me next year, is AM/EX GT, which is basically an open superbike class - everything goes. As you can imagine, there's no way for me to be remotely competitive on the F2 among the best machines on offer, though it is a very well-built machine, and setup properly.

If I were to keep it, my plan would be to hit some WERA V7 races, and maybe some CMRA Classic and CCS Classic events, but the fact that nobody has brought that class up, tells me that it's no longer in existence?

Anyway, so now I'm trying to sell this V7 bike, as I'm currently trying to buy something that will be competitive in the GT class.
I'm sad to read what you said about the V7 grids being so bare... guess it's a good thing I'm moving on to a new machine, huh?  ::)

The F2 is legal in CCS Thunderbike.  Also, if you are 40, or older, it is legal in Lightweight Formula 40.

[JNSRacing]

The F2 is legal in CCS Thunderbike.  Also, if you are 40, or older, it is legal in Lightweight Formula 40.

That's good to know, thanks!