Schools for expert racers

[Gino230]

I'm looking to take my riding to the next level, and this last two weekends (Roebling / Jennings) exposed some bad old habits......Any experiences you've had with schools or coaching would be great. I've never attended a school, but being the analytical type I've read all the books you can think of.


I'm looking at Yamaha Champions, Kieth Code, Disalvo, or maybe even hiring a pro to coach me. My main concern with the schools is you may be out there with guys just trying to get their knee down. While I don't mind revisiting basics, I don't want to spend $2k to do it. Also, some of the school bikes are on track day tires, not race tires, so I'm a bit concerned about that.


Thoughts?

[neuroduc]

Gosh Geno with your pedigree I would probably go with the pro coach approach.  I have nothing against the schools but, I feel with a PRO You will get one on one time and be much happier with the results.  Best wishes Brad. 

[Gino230]

Thanks Brad. The frustrating thing is that I know what to do to go faster, but I have a hard time executing.

Obviously, to improve your lap times, you need to do something different from the last lap.

I have lots of ideas, but executing those plans is where I'm screwing up. No matter how good a coach is, they can't turn the throttle for you. So I guess what I need is someone who can get me into that comfort zone, or change my thought process so I can better execute my plans?

Maybe a couple of beers right before I go out might help?..... (Kidding, of course)

[sdiver68]

I've been looking at the Yamaha Champions school myself.  Their instructors are top notch and you can ride your own bike.  Anyway, I'm interested in this thread also so anyone out there who has BTDT Please share.

[roadracer162]

It seems like that day you were chasing me in Thunderbike you stepped up the game. That is the day you were in the 1:32 range at HMS and nobody could catch you. What happened to that guy??

[Xian_13]

I'm looking to take my riding to the next level, and this last two weekends (Roebling / Jennings) exposed some bad old habits......Any experiences you've had with schools or coaching would be great. I've never attended a school, but being the analytical type I've read all the books you can think of.


I'm looking at Yamaha Champions, Kieth Code, Disalvo, or maybe even hiring a pro to coach me. My main concern with the schools is you may be out there with guys just trying to get their knee down. While I don't mind revisiting basics, I don't want to spend $2k to do it. Also, some of the school bikes are on track day tires, not race tires, so I'm a bit concerned about that.


Thoughts?

I have found myself, asking the same question.

My answer has yet to include taking a school. Main reason is, I think the schools are designed for the intermediate rider.
(or anyone will the means to pay for the class)
Schools that top my list as maybes;
Cornerspin (Dirt track approach to roadracing)
Supercamp (again dirt track)
Collin Edwards Boot camp

At this point, I have hit many plateaus racing.
When I get stuck at a level, I find different a approach.

This years approach, XR100/TTR125 on the ice with friends.
It was way more fun and cheaper than a school.

-X

[Gino230]

Mark, Homestead is a different animal, it's my home track and I haven't missed a race there in 13 years. Jennings and Roebling I went back to this season after a 2+ year hiatus and that's where the cracks were exposed. Psychological difference? Maybe. But if I'm not as good at the "momentum" tracks you would think there's work to be done somewhere.

Xian- good points to consider and another reason I have not pulled the trigger on a school. I too like the idea of dirt track training, being comfortable when there's no traction builds confidence.

Some of the best riders are always riding, wether it's on the dirt or something else. Where I live options are a little more limited, the closest dirt bike riding is several hours away. We do have the minibike track (MiamiGP) but it's dangerous. Everyone who goes there gets hurt at some point. Then again, racing is dangerous, too!

One of the reasons I have started to think about coaching- We've all seen guys come out to race who are high level athletes in other sports. Somehow within a season (or less) they are managing to get to the top of the stack.

Why?

I think it's because as a competitive athlete, you are constantly being coached and learning new skills. You practice the techniques of the pros (something that's hard to do often in our sport). Also, and most importantly- the best athletes watch what the top guys are doing, and learn to do it themselves. It's a very scientific approach, and me being a technical guy this approach appeals to me.


One of the reasons I like the idea of a top level school is that time is limited. I have enough trouble as it is getting one weekend off a month to go racing. So the idea of flying in to a location and jumping on their bikes is a big time savings for me. Plus you get to learn a new track- I think I would learn more taking a school at Barber than I would taking the same school at Homestead or PBIR.

[Wavrdr]

Gino,


I considered myself a knowledgable rider having grown up riding dirt, and making the transition to road racing with decent results. I had never previously attended a school either and was eager to to the Disalvo school at Jennings thinking I knew the track well....


I was open minded going in and found that they take you right back to the basic fundamentals of track riding, which highlighted many things I was doing wrong, and explained why doing such minimalistic activities while on the bike can gain major progresses.


My previous best at JGP was a 1:20.3. I had not raced there since the school and only rode it once. My best this last race weekend we were there was a 1:18.4. Now I know experience at any given track can make you quicker, but what they taught me has proven to make me quicker and safer at all the tracks I've raced since the school.


Now I'm not bashing any other school as I have yet to attend another, but if I were going to do it again, I would do the Disalvo weekend....again. It was that informative! Not to mention you get to ride with some very down to earth people that really know their way around a race course and can explain things in a simplistic way....


Alan

[Gino230]

Thanks Alan-  I'm not afraid of "going back to basics", as I think alot of problems can be traced back to that at some level. Honestly, I don't care if it's just a psychological advantage that I took the school vs. just getting some seat time.....I just want to go faster! Does the Disalvo school offer bikes as part of the package? Website isn't very helpful. Or maybe it doesn't like mac.

Sometimes I envy the guys who live in Vegas or Southern California, load up the dirt bikes and go play ride for a few hours any time any place. But then again they have to deal with all those showgirls, blackjack tables, and free whiskey. Horrible. Not to mention the heat.

[Wavrdr]

I don't know if they do.....you could call and talk to Brian Stokes...?

[MAZZ77X]

YCRS ...... It's a proven school with top level racers/instructors and equipment. It's a 2 day school on two different tracks. One on Lightning and the other on the AMA Pro track Thunderbolt. Can't go wrong and haven't heard a bad thing about them.


My son will be going next week and has never been through any formal school. Needless to say he's excited !!!   

[jfboothe]

Gino,
Did you ever find a school or a coach or pursue this any further?

[Gino230]

Actually I did. I hired Seth Starnes for a weekend.

I wasn't sure about hiring him, but we sat down and talked and then he sent me a few emails with video links. He's very analytical and very technical about his riding and how he breaks down each corner and the actions he's taking there. The track walk was also very enlightening, I have walked the track before but you always learn something, especially when you're doing it with Seth or someone like him.

I was very pleased with the outcome, I didn't drop time that weekend, but by the end I felt like I knew where I needed to work and I also learned some spots where I was doing things the wrong way. Different lines, etc.... getting to FULL throttle instead of getting the throttle open a little.

I am definitely riding better than I was, able to put the bike where I want it and pass more easily. One thing that helped me alot was getting another GPS Lap Timer (AIM SOLO), which showed me where I was losing time. I used to have one and use it alot but it flew off at Daytona :(

I would still try the YCRS or Speed Academy, but this was 1/3 the price, and it was immediate. I'm a little different than some students, if you show me something it takes me a while to commit to doing it that way so I don't get the benefit of what I was taught immediately. I have to get comfortable with the idea and work up to doing it regularly before what I was taught 'sinks in'.

Honestly, I will probably hire Seth again for some more coaching, maybe when we visit some new tracks. Schools are not off the table yet, either.