Thunderbike Questions

sPatlovich1 · January 25, 2013, 02:14:28 AM

New here to CCS. Raced all last year with wera, and now I am looking at running ccs this year. looks like my 93 cbr f2 will qualify for thunderbike. looking to see what I can expect with this class. I have looked through the rulebook, and wondering what tire is allowed for this class? I have been running Bridgestone slicks. would these be allowed in this class?
Thanks in advance, looking forward to meeting/racing you guys in 2013.
- Steve.

roadracer162 · January 25, 2013, 08:05:49 AM

Yes. Consider it like Superbike rules

2blueYam · January 25, 2013, 09:54:49 AM

Hint on the CCS rulebook: Unlike the WERA rule book, in CCS, if it doesn't say that you can't do it then you can do it. Since there is nothing about tires in the Thunderbike section of the rule book, you can run whatever tire you like.

LWT Racer · January 25, 2013, 10:33:16 AM

Rulebook says "Four cylinder, liquid cooled, 1990 to 1992 model year, up to 650cc"

From the sounds of that... 93, even tho same bike, would be out of the picture?

roadracer162 · January 25, 2013, 10:44:56 AM

Swiest- special ruling on the F2 exempts it from the ruling allowing it to be run. I am not sure if that special ruling allows the FZR 600 the same latitude as that bike remains unchanged for a number of years later.

roadracer162 · January 25, 2013, 10:50:18 AM

I do like the Thunderbike format although some bikes may have a huge advantage. A well built SB SV 650 has done well. But so does the Ducati 748/749, Bimota, RS 250, and some of the Buells. In my minds eye the water cooled 600 is at a disadvantage but that's why there is the 650cc limit for those bikes. Even older water cooled inline model years can go bigger to 750cc I think. There was one such FZR built to 735cc and producing some 110 hp

Woofentino Pugrossi · January 26, 2013, 02:16:32 AM

Quote from: Swiest on January 25, 2013, 10:33:16 AM
Rulebook says "Four cylinder, liquid cooled, 1990 to 1992 model year, up to 650cc"

From the sounds of that... 93, even tho same bike, would be out of the picture?

I ran a 93 in Thunderbike when they started Thunderbike (used to be called HW Sportsman). Since its unchanged from 92, K.E. said it was ok as was FZR600's to 99. I kept a copy of the email from him in my tool box JIC tech had issues.

roadracer162 · January 26, 2013, 08:14:35 PM

Would you forward that email to me, please. I had heard the same maybe on this forum.

Woofentino Pugrossi · January 27, 2013, 06:21:09 PM

I'll see if I can dig it up (if I still even have it). Its been 8yrs since I raced that bike.

sPatlovich1 · January 31, 2013, 01:06:44 AM

Ok, so my next question is this, my f2 has f3 upper and lower on it with a stock f2 seat and racetail.I also have a double bubble. looking through the rulebook it appears as there is no real stipulation on the bodywork. Will it be ok for me to run the f3 upper and lower? Thanks, -Steve

Woofentino Pugrossi · January 31, 2013, 01:29:19 AM

You can use whatever bodywork you want. Just requires an oil retaining belly pan.

Xian_13 · January 31, 2013, 06:27:03 AM

Quote from: majicMARKer on January 25, 2013, 10:50:18 AM
I do like the Thunderbike format although some bikes may have a huge advantage. A well built SB SV 650 has done well. But so does the Ducati 748/749, Bimota, RS 250, and some of the Buells. In my minds eye the water cooled 600 is at a disadvantage but that's why there is the 650cc limit for those bikes. Even older water cooled inline model years can go bigger to 750cc I think. There was one such FZR built to 735cc and producing some 110 hp

I had a FZR-400 with a "franken-motor", with was a combination of a YZF-600 and a FZR-600(with an over-bore).
Total displacement was 685cc, on 91 pump gas it made 110.

What I learned with that bike is, HP numbers are not everything.
The bike had a small, small window of a powerband. Getting out of that window was worst then riding a 250GP bike.

The class "Over-dog" is the 749R.

-X

roadracer162 · January 31, 2013, 08:24:45 AM

Quote from: Xian_13 on January 31, 2013, 06:27:03 AM
I had a FZR-400 with a "franken-motor", with was a combination of a YZF-600 and a FZR-600(with an over-bore).
Total displacement was 685cc, on 91 pump gas it made 110.

What I learned with that bike is, HP numbers are not everything.
The bike had a small, small window of a powerband. Getting out of that window was worst then riding a 250GP bike.

The class "Over-dog" is the 749R.

-X

Sounds like you were running a cheater unless you were able to build it with the FZR 400 cases and head. After that anything goes. I do know of a early model FZR 600 built to 735cc but it isn't together right now. Mine was built through the normal channels with a 630cc.

As far as the 749R being the class over-dog, I can understand that statement but I know of a few air cooled Ducati/ Bimota built to 1128 that put out some serious power and are as fast or faster than the R. Depending on the track the 250GP bike has been very fast and in capable hands move along pretty good.

Bodywork isn't an issue. You could run without bodywork as long as you have a bellypan for oil containment.

Xian_13 · January 31, 2013, 01:41:47 PM

Quote from: majicMARKer on January 31, 2013, 08:24:45 AM
Sounds like you were running a cheater unless you were able to build it with the FZR 400 cases and head. After that anything goes. I do know of a early model FZR 600 built to 735cc but it isn't together right now. Mine was built through the normal channels with a 630cc.

Never said I raced the bike, nor did I say what classes the bike was legal for.
I would be possible to build the FZR-400 motor to the same specs, just would have cost more.

Quote from: majicMARKer on January 31, 2013, 08:24:45 AM
As far as the 749R being the class over-dog, I can understand that statement but I know of a few air cooled Ducati/ Bimota built to 1128 that put out some serious power and are as fast or faster than the R. Depending on the track the 250GP bike has been very fast and in capable hands move along pretty good...

The Ducati/Bimotas you talk about are far from affordable.
So if you want to say a 40K Bimota is competitive with a 10K Duc, I will agree with that.

Having raced a 250GP, 250s are great capable machines.
When raced against anything other then a 250, their weak points make them useless in any other position then 1st.

-X

roadracer162 · January 31, 2013, 06:20:51 PM

Quote from: Xian_13 on January 31, 2013, 01:41:47 PM
Never said I raced the bike, nor did I say what classes the bike was legal for.
I would be possible to build the FZR-400 motor to the same specs, just would have cost more.

The Ducati/Bimotas you talk about are far from affordable.
So if you want to say a 40K Bimota is competitive with a 10K Duc, I will agree with that.

Having raced a 250GP, 250s are great capable machines.
When raced against anything other then a 250, their weak points make them useless in any other position then 1st.

-X

I half expected that we were still talking Thunderbike when you spoke of the Frankenmotor. 110 hp would be a lot for the 400 transmission. I would still love to build a lightweight FZR 400, say close to 300# and up to 90 hp.

Didn't think we were counting pennies for the class too with the 748RS costing a bunch to keep running not including the purchase price. I do know of a certain 749R in the 150hp range but so is the 748RS. So Bimota, NCR, Pierobon all on the same level as far as cost but the latter two not Thunderbike legal. The 250GP gets a grant and is legal. The Ducati 1000/1100 can be built just like the Bimota, or could we say the Paul Smart and it is a pretty good equal to the Bimota. Or how about that $50k SV that Barnes rode at Daytona.

My ride? It's a pieced together eBay special 748 that runs pretty good but isn't the top dog.

sPatlovich1 · February 13, 2013, 12:54:50 AM

Thanks for all the help. So, what are the grid numbers like in thunderbike?

roadracer162 · February 13, 2013, 05:04:47 PM

Depends on the region and we shall see this year. Since it isn't a points paying class to the overall, only select racers compete. My Ducati 748 fits it nicely although it is not the fastest. Some air cooled ducats are very fast allowing a 1200cc displacement, but that's tough on the air cooled motor. I like the format where a multitude of engine configurations can race. I have often raced with my air cooled Ducati 800 although down on outright power

sPatlovich1 · February 20, 2013, 12:50:29 AM

what do you mean by it's not a points paying class? so their is no points giving out per race and no champion at the end of the year?

Woofentino Pugrossi · February 20, 2013, 01:01:03 AM

Quote from: sPatlovich1 on February 20, 2013, 12:50:29 AM
what do you mean by it's not a points paying class? so their is no points giving out per race and no champion at the end of the year?

Doesnt qualify for overall points for track championships.

roadracer162 · February 20, 2013, 11:46:57 AM

Quote from: sPatlovich1 on February 20, 2013, 12:50:29 AM
what do you mean by it's not a points paying class? so their is no points giving out per race and no champion at the end of the year?

It does pay poits each race to a Regional Championship, plus their is also the National Championship. it does not pay points to the overall points for the ultimate Number One plate as previously stated.

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