Ultra Light thunder bike 250cc class rules for 2013

[roadracer162]

Agreed

[CHIRINOM]

There you have it. Two racers who each have three race bikes and do not intend on running in this class have agreed. Thanks guys  No really. It is good to hear other suggestions.

[roadracer162]

Miquel- what I am attempting to do is help to build the ultralight thunder bike class even though I don't participate in the racing. I still can participate by building the class. From the start I have given much advice and suggestions in getting the class accepted through Henry and ultimately Texas.

This class in its genesis has been similar to the Florida vintage series. What we the racers have done is to buy our own trophies through volunteers. We have a very nice perpetual trophy costing some $500. The regional trophy is also donated by one of the racers. More class participation is what we are after. If there are 30 bikes on the grid then I can understand limitations. My little FZR 400 is no power house compared to the other bikes on the vintage grid but it is loads of fun for me to race against them.

[Knedragon]

 Thats just it ... so say 2-3 guys show up with new 300's ... you won't find a way to get them in the class and race ??? No you say put them in the other lightweight classes which they won't have a chance just like you say.I can see if there were 20-30 250's running down here in the class,then you have a point.It is pretty easy,you don't wanna buy a new 300 because of costs.The 300 comes in bone stock no mods and the 250 goes supersport mods which I think it already is but you guys have the gentlemans agreement,so now you can spend a couple of bucks on the 250's to keep them up to speed to run with the new 300's    if the class grows more everyone will jump on the 300 once they start coming around some.
Hey Mark I have a bunch of trophies if you guys want them,they may be a little dirty,some may be bamged up a little but I have like 100 or so just sitting in the attic collecting dust.

[roadracer162]

Steve, Henry has been gracious and provides the top three plaques. Michael Perry has sourced the "Williams Cup" and received some donations for it. The regional trophy is not supplied by CCS but by one of the races. In the end we are happy to be out there on our old bikes and completely appreciate the help from Henry and CCS.

[Tri74x]

Can I go to 368cc? All kidding aside, new 300's remain stock (even exhaust for now- need to keep them heavy), 250 twins allow .060 over, singles .080, and allow head work but must retain OEM diameter valves. This should make a good reasonable match-up. Over time, you may find one or the other machine dominating, so you just add/subtract allowable mods to regain parody. I know this is not an ideal solution, but it looks as if the 300's are allowed- then you'd better up your ante!

[Gallego]

First of all, hi everyone. This is mine first post and I do it to support the Spec Class


If it works don't fix it, this class is working great, increasing number of riders and interested riders are willing to join (I am one of them), therefore why should we go to an [/size]unknown path. None of the actual riders asked for this changes, and as far as I know no one claimed the need to race the 300. I [/size]don't[/size] understand whom [/size] is benefiting from this [/size]decision[/size], but most of the actual and future riders fell that it is against their interest. Everyone [/size]would[/size] be happier leaving it as it is.....[/size]

[roadracer162]

That was very confusing and disturbing. But, errr....thanks I think.

[roadracer162]

I am not sure if it was ever intended to be a spec class but it has been a thought put together by the riders. Keep building the class with full participation and then you could have some clout. As it is run the class with the gentleman's agreement and everyone will be happy. I don't know if anyone has bothered to spend too much money into it.

I have chosen not to run the 250 class but instead race my beloved FZR 400. It cost me a whopping $700 total to be race ready. It crashes well an the motor in stock form has performed for years with as little as a valve adjustment once a year. Fuel consumption is so low it just isn't worth it to me to get into another bike only to run this one class. I support getting this class growing in any way that I can.

My plans are to continue to grow the Florida Vintage Series by participating in that class with my FZR 400. I would love to see some of the old GPZ's out there too.

[CHIRINOM]

Hey guys,

Just a short recap of the conversation that I had with CCS this afternoon. I received an email congratulating us all on a job well done on our regional and national championships and thanking us for our support in 2012.

Some of the highlights of the conversation was the significant increase in grid size from  0.7 entries per event in 2011 to 3.4 entries per event in 2012. This is great news as it proves that what ever we are doing is working. It was also a positive conversation as we now have some information to work with.

I was given several reasons as to why the rules proposal was not accepted and as to why the 300 was added. They are listed below.

-Cost of enforcement of spec rules.
-CCS Does not promote vintage racing.
-CCS does not cater to running economy classes.
-There is no evidence that the opening up of the rules did anything but help the turnout.
-The 300 was added by the rules committee in fear of lowering the turnout.

In response to this I would suggest that they revert to 2011 rules, this will address the cost issue. A 2012 is far from vintage, they are still being sold in dealers. Yes the older machines are competitive and vintage riders would be welcomed into the class but this only fosters more participation as there are more vintage riders than 300 riders, we had two join us throughout the year. We know that opening up the rules did not foster participation, as proof they can ask every rider who participated in 2012. 100% of the 250 riders are running stock 250cc engines. As a result of this agreement we had a significant increase in grid size. Yes at some point the 300 may have to be accommodated and maybe limiting the 300 in some way would be in favor but until then why not let a successful class continue to grow? Take the year to determine how the 250 and the 300 will be able to be paired in 2014. Maybe Kawasaki will sell a kit and support the racing effort next year. Maybe a conversation with Kawasaki will result in a solution to A limit the 300 or B increase the 250's performance to an equal level as well as a chance to bring the Honda up to par. This will also give the riders whom have planned to participate in 2013 a chance at a competitive 2013 season as well as chance to save and plan for 2014.

Please take into account that much of the support is based upon CCS's promise to re visit the rules for 2013 given participation. Here we are getting ready for 2013 and we have increased the grid sizes significantly. I can assure you that un limiting the rules and adding a motorcycle with larger displacement was not in the minds of riders whom are requesting this consideration.

[Gino230]

Correction: 1100 cc Ducs and oh, don't forget, 1100 Bimotas and Peirobons that are $40k to $60k and Supersport legal.... Don't try to put the same wheels that come on the Bimota on your Ducati though, you would be cheating.



Lightweight used to be an entry level class... what a joke now!


You can have a paddock full of 600s for the entry price of Lightweight!

Technically, Pierbon isn't legal for Superbike or Supersport. It's not a production machine. Bimota is a different story. However I have ridden them and while they are good, the advantage is mostly psychological. All types of bikes are winning in Lightweight, Bimota is far from dominant.

I agree with you that the bar is pretty high in LW, but the rules are the same for everyone.....what can you do?

[roadracer162]

Entry level is the ninja 250 or the like. Or how about the moriwaki or a 125 GP. Soon there will be ample moto3 machines as they become obsolete on the world level. Affordable? Depends on your price of affordable. You can have a FZR 600 for $1500 and be ready to race but that is allowed in Thunderbike mainly.

Is the current year SV competitive? You say no, but it is based upon 1999 technology so how much further did you expect it to come?

Time moves on, and so does the class'. A new bike comes out and it is put into the closest class. I don't believe a 1000 anything should be lightweight. Total displacement limits should be set. An 1125 Buell is not the same as the 1123 Ducati. The 650 SV, Ducati 800 and 900 seem to me as true lightweight. Ultralight capped at say 550?