CCS Homestead

[MELK-MAN]

I have been running the Power one V all year on the 800 and tried the slick a couple of time. I did well at JGP and PBIR on the slick. I need my confidence back to go quick and next year will be all Power Cup.

you will REALLY like that power cup dot front.I wish i knew you were rolling around on a V. i would have given you one of my slightly used fronts.

[Knedragon]

 I'm sticking with BStones until they arent free anymore :-) .... and after that I'll still have 3-4 sets sitting around.

[roadracer162]

I'm sticking with BStones until they arent free anymore :-) .... and after that I'll still have 3-4 sets sitting around.

LoL Steve. Bridgestone has been good on contingency when you are winning or at least top five. it was one of my best seasons on the Bridgestone only costing $700. I haven't realized a difference in race wins or speed but I don't think I am using all the tire. I could push the Bridgestone more easily than Michelin but are predicable very early. The Michelin feedback comes later but still remain predictable.

I am not sure what the hoopla is all about on the Dunlop other than watching other fast guys win on them. Well this year a Michelin fast guy has the Florida Number One plate. Was Brad on Michelins when he won the #1?

[Knedragon]

 Hey Mark,I do get a vague feeling form the front .... been working on that and next year at Homestead at least I'm gonna run the real soft front and a soft rear and see what happens.Wont be able to do that at a track like Roebling but it may work every where else.This whole year I ran the YCX 125/front and YCY Rear ... could never go out and gain a even a lb on the front,been rolling out down to 27 hot and still come in 27 hot.Maybe the 250 is to lite on the front.Never had trouble with the Flops in that regard.Always would get a lb or 2.The little bike to me it doesnt matter much,I've run BStones,Dunlops,Michelins and Pirellies and they all seem to work pretty much the same.

[MELK-MAN]

LoL Steve. Bridgestone has been good on contingency when you are winning or at least top five. it was one of my best seasons on the Bridgestone only costing $700. I haven't realized a difference in race wins or speed but I don't think I am using all the tire. I could push the Bridgestone more easily than Michelin but are predicable very early. The Michelin feedback comes later but still remain predictable.

I am not sure what the hoopla is all about on the Dunlop other than watching other fast guys win on them. Well this year a Michelin fast guy has the Florida Number One plate. Was Brad on Michelins when he won the #1?

Brad was on Michelins for all of the racing he did other than the AMA stuff on the Dud848 with Celtic racing. those were Dunlop obviously. He snagged the SE #1 though from me that year .. I'm the first to get a FL #1 :)

I am CONVINCED that many riders are running dunlop for the simple fact it's the AMA tire. I was at the dunlop big-rig friday having them mount a tire for me, 2 guys came up that were just track day guys. not even riding that weekend. THey asked specifically for "the tires that the guys use in AMA". He was told, "these are the exact tires used in AMA" .. those guys looked like they were going to shit themselves with excitement. Stefano Mesa ran the Michelins at his CCS races this year, and won a bunch of races.. We talked lots about them. The front tires are a toss up if you compare to the uk dunlop. both awesome. The rear uk dunlop does last a bit longer but are $550 for that set.

the us dunlops? at least to mid season this year it was OBVIOUS when the fast FL guys were on the US tires. I could beat them  8) I talked to a few of them, and they were candid with me and said yea.. the us tire is at LEAST 1-2 seconds slower. The us tire made some changes, but is still questionable depending on who you talk with, at how much slower than the UK tire it is. I watched Nico Fellipe Ferrera go from one of the fastest 600 riders, to looking downright average when he tired to run with us in a ccs event on the US tire. He literrally didn't finish the GTU earlier this year he was so pissed. Same with Manny Manuthusakis. He was way back on the US tire, and switched to the UK tire.. bam. He was on my ass just like that. I hear there were updates to the US tire, but of the guys that i talk to, they are still not as fast as the UK tire. This of course is me talking, and i have never ran ANY of those tires.

There is NO reason any club racer should not try the michelin tire. the front michelin is likely better than the us dunlop (and for sure is according to Thermosman). I can totally understand guys like Lee Farmer and Alan S. running the dunlop to earn lots of contingency.. and the fast experts have tire deals AND contingency that make it tough to switch from dunlop.

[Gino230]

Ahhh the post race riding discussion....one of my favorites. Besides this board needs some more action other than the midwest guys constant complaining. :)

I arrived at Homestead well rested and very confident following Daytona. Knowing you can actually run up front really helps. Also I was feeling a little under the weather Friday-Saturday, so when the alarm went off Saturday Morning, I just shut it off and figured the hell with it. (I missed the Friday track day  due to work). As a result I got to the track around 11 and got out for the first afternoon session.

This time I approached practice very differently. Usually I take a few sessions to "get up to speed" (whatever that means). This time I focused on just ONE of my big weaknesses that I pinpointed at Daytona: I concentrated on releasing the brake earlier in each corner, thus carrying more corner speed. In the past I spent too much time focusing on the apex and thus was braking way too long. This felt good and I got to within a second of my personal best times within 2 sessions. In the past, I rode around all day and sometimes never achieved race pace, all the while wearing myself and the equipment out.

Race day I also slept in and skipped the morning warmup and GT races. I got right down to business and was able to get within .25 second of my personal best on both bikes. Of course it still didn't result in wins (I still have alot to work on as far as starts and race craft).

My bikes are VERY different, the 749 handles amazingly well but it must be ridden like a 600 or GP bike- lots of revs and lots of shifting. One breakthrough I made on the 749 is grabbing an extra downshift before corner entry. This would allow me to brake later, grab that extra downshift and let the slipper clutch work at slowing the bike all the way to the apex. Also it puts me right in the powerband at corner exit. This helped me tremendously in 6-7, where I was getting pulled by the 2 valves while I waited for my 749 to spool up like an old jet engine.

Seeing Greg get into the 1:33's on the DS shows me that I still have alot of work to do- it has been a long time since anyone was under 1:35 on the DS platform- Jeff Wood did a 1:29 on Hudlett (later Sullivan's) old bike, but that had ohlins forks, brakes, carbon wheels, etc. One thing I am torn about- I have always been very easy on equipment- always conserving the clutches, easy on the revs, etc. which has allowed me to compete on some pretty high level bikes very economically. However I need to start pushing stuff harder if I'm going to make any progress.

I have a few more ideas where I can make time, and I am going to concentrate more on QUALITY practice time rather than quantity. I am going to have to try something, as the gauntlet has been thrown down. I must beat Chris Boy and his NCR at Daytona.

[MELK-MAN]

I found motor braking critical on these twin cyl bikes Gino, as you discovered with the extra downshift, you can turn them much better.  In practice, i was trying 3rd in some corners as we didn't have a lot of time to work with gearing. Had i known i would use 2nd gear, i woulda left the smaller rear sprocket for more speed in the straights. I must have tried to shift to "7th" about 50 times on Sunday..LOL.
Now i know, and have passed that info on to Tom, so it will surely help him next season.
I am not so sure letting off the brakes is the fastest way, at least all the way. In theory, you trail em all the way to the apex. the more you lean, the more you release the brake. If done right, you just get to the apex as you are totally off the brake. in theory! lol.. it may be easier for you to set up and brake sooner then let off much more entering the corner, but Charlie will shoot up the inside. He is very good on the brakes (as i'm sure you know).

32's would have been very easy. With Charlie in the way i was looking for lines around entering corners much of the time. On Friday, i did a high 31 the 2nd time out on the bike.. :)

Chris's NCR is silly fast. He was literally playing with us on that thing. I have been on track with my r6 with him, it's easily as fast as my bike in a straight line. Not sure about top speed, but at Homestead it pulls wheel to wheel.. LOL !

And i know you are sick of me saying it, but that michelin VB power cup front tire was just stupid good. That is what we ran on Tom's bike. i could put that thing wherever i wanted, and it never gave me one hint of trouble. Some of you guys really just need to try them. It's one set of tires. if the lap times don't improve, go back.

[roadracer162]

And i know you are sick of me saying it, but that michelin VB power cup front tire was just stupid good. That is what we ran on Tom's bike. i could put that thing wherever i wanted, and it never gave me one hint of trouble. Some of you guys really just need to try them. It's one set of tires. if the lap times don't improve, give them to Mark Tenn

Fixed it for you Greg. Yes it always seems you need another gear, but I venture to say it is mainly that you are coming from the high rev R6. At least compared to the air cooled twins it is a high rev machine. One of the characteristics I have found with the Ducati air cooled is they get wheezy on the top rpm. At least my bikes are. Listening to the video soundtrack and your shifting it seemed you just ran out of gear and there was more speed there for turn one.

It seemed to me you were racing Charlie very cleanly and he wasn't doing his usual antics. That was some good racing on both effort. He used his strong points and capitalized on them. If you weren't so kind you could have pushed through, but those are high risk.

[MELK-MAN]

LOL.. I like the initiative Mark. :)


PS: and Jeff Wood did 29's on a similar bike.. not so much cause it has fancy bits, but because he's a bad muther fugger.

[Gino230]

Yes, I still trail brake. But in the past, I would trail all the way to the apex and park it in the middle of the corner (looking too long at the apex and not through the corner). So I concentrated on easing off the brake earlier, thus keeping the corner speed up. Next step is to brake LATER so that I must trail it all the way to the apex.

Rather than working on that 15 feet where I'm barely on the brake "coasting" to the apex, I think I would benefit more from working on getting the throttle wide open earlier. I crack it as soon as I get off the brakes, but I'm very gentle on the roll on as I pick the bike up, so it takes longer to get to full throttle. I'm not comfortable breaking the rear loose regularly. With the Daytona (hard) tire I could get on the gas just a bit and get the rear loose but not really spinning. With the softer US dunlop slick I haven't been able to spin it.

I've been told it's not who gets the throttle open first, but who gets to FULL throttle first- so I'm working on that.

The air cooled bikes are totally different from the 4 valve Ducs. On my air cooled bike, I gear a bit taller and use the torque of the engine, shifting around 7-7500 RPM. At Daytona in practice I was sailing by Tom on the banking, he was revving out to 9200 and I was geared to run alone topped out at 7250, 7700 or so in the draft which would allow me to keep pulling to 8000 in a draft pass...classic "overrev". I made the same mistake as Tom did last year with gearing and learned my lesson as the bike would accelerate beautifully in the draft, when I pulled out it would not make it by.

[Gino230]

And yes Mark, I do need to learn to try different lines when passing. Part of the issue is that I am very conservative when passing. I have not touched the pavement (except with my knees and tires) Since 2004- that's alot of race miles (that time in the pits at PBIR doesn't count) and it's tough to run up front and still be that careful.

Lee Farmer had the pleasure of being behind me last weekend, he says "you don't start racing until the second lap" which is somewhat true, as I am a little too cautious getting through traffic. It's a tough sport, always something to learn.

As for Chris and the NCR, here is the story:

Since he doesn't race much, Chris' favorite passtime is messing with my head prior to races. Usually about what ringer will be showing up to race in "my" classes. In Daytona it was all about "Bob Robbins is building a 749"....at Homestead "Jeff Wood is racing Thunderbike" and on and on. I have gotten a little immune to the ribbing, so he upped his game now and is threatening to race Daytona on the NCR. After he, Barbie, and Jason Edmonds plied me with alcohol on Saturday night he started in on how he was going to whoop me at Daytona, is capable of 1:57's, etc. Well, I responded that I did 1:59's on the 749 and the bike has alot more in it....besides that piston-thrower he rides has a good chance of DNF'ing around the high banks. So now it's on. At least we didn't go so far as betting pink slips, since I can't afford to maintain that NCR should I win.

So in short I'm looking for a good coach. Barring that, I'll hire someone who can plug into that NCR's computer and slow it down a little bit.

[MELK-MAN]

there is a lot to learn about those bikes, for sure. And gearing as you found is critical. Even at homestead, I'm certain it will be faster using 2nd in all the slow stuff, and pulling longer in 6th. There is no reason i was looking for 7th gear so many times.. Rolling through in 3rd gear through those corners with low rpm on the duc is not the fast way around homestead, unless it's running out of rmp way before  it should in 6th in multiple areas as it was for me.. So that should be a FREE lesson to you :)

There is some truth to the "he who gets to full throttle first wins".. but in my experience, it's a bit of your earlier statement too. Rolling on early.. I would say ya need a bit of both. Getting the gas open, but a nice roll-on to FWO.

A little rear end slip is something you would do well to get comfortable with. One cool thing about these twins, is as it is such lower rpm than the R6 when this is going on usually, there is more notice when it does happen. I was actually surprised a few times when it did happen, and that was even using the smaller 180 tire Michelin offers, not the 190 that Bob Cole uses on his bimota, and I use on the R6. I would break loose on occasion exiting the final corner trying (i knew in vain) to drive out underneath Mavros on his bike. A few other corners too..

BUT.. there is something to be said for not falling since 2004. That is only a year after i started, and i have had lots of falls since that date :) Do what ya feel comfortable with, but keep expectations real. Ya know.. on that NCR situation, you could get the rider liquored up the night before. That would slow him down.