Insurance, Racing, and Unlimited GP

Started by GSXR RACER MIKE, May 01, 2003, 08:39:17 AM

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GSXR RACER MIKE

     I am somewhat disapointed in the way the Unlimited GP class is being handled at the combined FUSA events this season (It also appears that Sportbike is included in this also). The way I understand it, the experts will be combined with the pros in a race that will have qualifying and be almost twice as long as a normal sprint. Now that may sound great so far, but you have to have a FUSA license to run those races and you are now in what is considered a pro race. My insurance will not cover me if I race pro, so I am forced to miss 3 ULGP races this year because they are FUSA classes.
     My main complaint with this is that those races still count toward the expert ULGP points for the season (in their respective region) and therefore excludes anyone else who is in the same insurance situation as me from the overall points battle for that class. I had planned on continueing to run the ULGP class as 1 of the 4 classes I would run all year, but now I am thinking about dropping that class for the rest of the season and only running 3 classes.
     I suppose on a somewhat positive note for me I will be saving $910 in entry fees by not entering the ULGP classes for the rest of the year! (even though I think the reason sucks!) :-/
Smites are a cowards way of feeling brave!   :jerkoff:
Mike Williams - 2 GSXR 750's
Former MW Region Expert #58
Racing exclusively with CCS since '96
MODERATOR

sdiver68

Hmmm. unfortunately I have to miss May 25th at MAM to attend my sister's wedding, but I'm glad you posted because I had thought that CCS would run a full schedule on Saturday, and Sunday would be FUSA day.

Damn, that means I am going to miss a 28 lap Sportbike race!  :o That would have been fun, assuming i can pull my head out of my azz and get going lol

I would seriously question the disitinction between FUSA and CCS races as far as your insurance goes.  How is the FUSA event any more "Pro" then the CCS event?  Could it be assumed that you are entering the CCS regional event, which just happens to be run in the same race as the FUSA event?

And, btw, I am pre-reg'd for those combined races with just a CCS licence, no one has said anyhting to me about needing a FUSA license ...hmmm... probably all the way until i got to the reg line at the track lol
MCRA Race School Instructor

GSXR RACER MIKE

#2
QuoteI would seriously question the disitinction between FUSA and CCS races as far as your insurance goes.  How is the FUSA event any more "Pro" then the CCS event?  Could it be assumed that you are entering the CCS regional event, which just happens to be run in the same race as the FUSA event?

And, btw, I am pre-reg'd for those combined races with just a CCS licence, no one has said anything to me about needing a FUSA license ...hmmm... probably all the way until i got to the reg line at the track lol

     I spoke with CCS a few weeks ago (can't remember who though) and I presented them with this issue and they said at that time that I had to have a Formula USA license in order to run the combined CCS/Fomula USA classes. It has been my understanding that Formula USA is Pro racing and by purchasing that license I am then drawn into that catagory for those combined classes. If that is not the case, then why the need for the Formula USA license?
     According to the '2003 Official Daytona and Road America Entry Mailer' volume 20, issue 2 it says; "For those who will compete in a Formula USA/CCS combined class at an event, it will require a Formula USA upgrade to your CCS license." The confusing part is it says that "There will be two statuses of Formula USA license, Amateur and Expert". So does this mean that Formula USA is not Pro racing? And if that is the case, why is there a difference between CCS races and Formula USA races at all? (other than the obvious fact that Formula USA is a national series)
     I don't care about the upgrade, what I am concerned about is getting injured and not having medical coverage. Even a mildly serious injury while racing (and not being covered by medical insurance) has the potential to be a financially life changing disaster (even if you recovered physically 100%). An ounce of prevention can easily be worth a pound of cure!
Smites are a cowards way of feeling brave!   :jerkoff:
Mike Williams - 2 GSXR 750's
Former MW Region Expert #58
Racing exclusively with CCS since '96
MODERATOR

ecumike

#3
Just my .02, but I would not consider FUSA the 'pro' racers/races.
AMA is Pro, FUSA is non-pro... the difference between the FUSA races?...CCS is regional and NRRS is national.

Here's how I look at all the ORG.s on a totem pole:
CCS/WERA/etc.. - minor league, regional
NRRS - minor league, national
AMA - major league/pro - national
WSBK - major league/pro - world

sdiver68

Quote       I don't care about the upgrade, what I am concerned about is getting injured and not having medical coverage. Even a mildly serious injury while racing (and not being covered by medical insurance) has the potential to be a financially life changing disaster (even if you recovered physically 100%). An ounce of prevention can easily be worth a pound of cure!

Understood, and I can't pretend to have the answers...but I'm saying I don't think the fact that you are in a "Pro" race nescessarily makes you a Pro, and thus excluded from coverage.  If you define "Pro" as someone who makes their income, or a substantial portion of their income, from racing, then you are not involved in pro racing, again, just club racing that happens to be run during the pro event.

Also, Sportbike and ULGP both pay purses at the regional level.  How are they different from a FUSA race, in regards to the wording of your health insurance policy?

Like I said, you may want to get a definitive ruling on exactly what your policy exclusion does or does not cover.  And write your Congressmen in support of the bill making such policy exclusions illegal.
MCRA Race School Instructor

MightyDuc Racing

My policy only covers me if racing for trophies (Aetna), not for cash.  If you get paid for it, you are a pro in their eyes.  Contingency is different because it is a certificate.  How would they know which race you were in anyways, or the difference for that matter between classes?  I'd say I crashed in a different race or something worst case scenario if I were you.  I personally run no purse classes.
MightyDuc Racing
CCS AM #944 - Florida Region
Ducati 944 Superbike
www.mightyducracing.com
www.cycletires.com
Sponsors:
Tomahawk Tires, Dunlop, AGV, Superbikes & Ski, SW Medical Supply, BCM

dwilson

I'm in Amatuer Middle Weight.  I was under the impression that most races had a cash prize for 1st, 2nd & 3rd place (a small cash prize...)  

MightyDuc Racing

Very few races have cash prizes...only Expert GT races and UL shootouts as fas as I know.
MightyDuc Racing
CCS AM #944 - Florida Region
Ducati 944 Superbike
www.mightyducracing.com
www.cycletires.com
Sponsors:
Tomahawk Tires, Dunlop, AGV, Superbikes & Ski, SW Medical Supply, BCM

sdiver68

#8
Expert and Amateur GTO, GTU, GTL, ULGP, and Expert Sportbike all have cash payouts.

Most other races are eligible for various contingencies, the "tire money" being the most important for Amateurs.
MCRA Race School Instructor

GSXR RACER MIKE

QuoteI can't pretend to have the answers...but I'm saying I don't think the fact that you are in a "Pro" race nescessarily makes you a Pro, and thus excluded from coverage.  If you define "Pro" as someone who makes their income, or a substantial portion of their income, from racing, then you are not involved in pro racing, again, just club racing that happens to be run during the pro event.

     I should back up a little as to show where I am coming from. I work with a guy who got hurt while ice racing motorcycles this past winter and he went thru this very subject with our insurance provider. The class he was running in was an amateur class, but there were also Pro classified races going on during that same event. The insurance company denied coverage initially saying that this was a Pro event and he was not covered to race Pro. He told them he raced amateur and they actually checked with the racing organization to confirm the exact class that he was running in when he got hurt. The bizarre part about it was that his injuries were reletively minor and were not any high dollar medical costs.
     As for what people consider Pro is something else but to the insurance provider all they had to see was those 3 letters - Pro - to deny coverage. Also if you lie as to what class it was and get caught they can drop your coverage all together and make you cover all the costs yourself. This is the reason for the concern about what the class is considered.
Smites are a cowards way of feeling brave!   :jerkoff:
Mike Williams - 2 GSXR 750's
Former MW Region Expert #58
Racing exclusively with CCS since '96
MODERATOR

mdr14

Before I got on my Wife's policy, My insurance would cover me during all my racing I believe I had American Families for the health insurance. The reason was that I was a "Semi" proffesional. Which means I did not race for a living.

You might want to check your fine print to see if they distinguish between the classifications.

Some one like AAron Yates would be considered  "proffessional" because he races for a living.
Matt Drucker
MD Racing
www.mdracingstp.com